Through The Eye of a Private Eye: A Conversation About Private Investigation

**[00:00:00]** Hello everyone. This is Armando Prescaro and welcome to the Web Talk Show. Today we're joined by Scott Fulmer, a private investigator and we're going to have a very interesting show going behind the scenes into the day in the life of a private investigator. Welcome, Scott. Hey, thank you. I was going to say after this we can go to Waterburger for lunch. Nice. Yeah. By the way, we're in the same town, believe it or not, which is a fun fun little tidbit here. But Scott, why don't you tell our audience who you are so that they get a little background on what we're going to discuss today? Sure. So, I'm a private investigator. I've been a PI for about 30 years and um I'm based here in San Antonio, so I'm licensed throughout Texas. I uh am a father. Recently became a grandfather, which is pretty awesome. went to Colorado and saw my first uh grandchild which is a granddaughter and uh have three kids, been married for about 34 years. I'm a Gore veteran. Um I also have a podcast called A Study in Crime, which is a a true crime podcast. And then I've also written a book called Confessions of a Private Eye. So other than that, I'm pretty boring. Well, other than that, so people love a good crime, true crime podcast. How did that come about? How did you get into from being a private investigator to actually doing a show about it? So, you know, I as I uh it kind of came out of the book actually. I mean, I I used to blog. I don't know if people blog still. I think they do, but uh I used to blog back in the day and I ended up **[00:02:00]** doing a uh another podcast called the Inner Mountain PI. It was about specifically geared towards private investigators. And then I stopped that and and uh things got really really busy. But I really enjoy podcasting. I enjoy talking to people. And so as I uh I finished my book, I still had stories to tell. I wanted to interview people, find out about crimes that they were involved in or where where they were victims and uh so pretty much went from there. I mean, it's actually pretty easy to get a podcast started. That's the easy part. Uh keeping it going, that's a whole another ball game. So, that's very interesting. Do you find especially in some of these maybe more sensitive subjects like someone was a victim of a crime or they committed a crime because we we hear some of those in in other true crime type podcasts. How how difficult is is it to find someone that wants to talk about it and and how like keeping it what part of it do you keep sort of secret but at the same time you you do want to tell the story and privacy and all that like how how does that work? That's a good question. Yeah. So I I I can start by telling you I didn't want to be just like any other uh podcast. you know, you have your murder of the week podcast where every week it's this person got killed. It's just a different location and a different method and uh that kind of got old. So, with a studying crime, I look at all types of crimes. Uh you know, embezzlement, murder, yes, serial killers, fraud, uh real estate fraud, that that type of thing. And um and so **[00:04:00]** uh I have a variety of guests and most of them have been the people that investigated the crime. Maybe they were the detectives or they were someone that wrote a book about it. But I do have several that are victims. In fact, the the episode that dropped today is called The Louder Prison Redemption. And it's about a woman that uh committed real estate fraud and uh moneyaundering and went to a federal prison for it. So, she's a you know, she was what we call the victim, I guess, although she you know, she's guilty. She'll tell you she was. Um so, yeah. I mean, it's a fine line. I don't want to be salacious. I don't want to uh I I want to get the details out, but I don't want to kind of overdo it. I don't know if that makes sense. My with my training as a private investigator, you're trained to interview people and excit I've had a guy tell me in prison that, you know, he raped a woman and I had to just stand there and say, "Okay, well, how did it happen?" You know, where were you? That type of thing. Uh because if you react in a really, you know, that kind of way, they're they're gonna stop talking to you. So, you know, that's kind of how it's gone for me and I think it's gone pretty well. Is being a private investigator something that you wanted to do since you were young? How did that evolve? How did you get into that? Yeah, it really is. Uh uh it really has been. And I've I've told the story a few times. So, I uh when I was a kid, I love to read and uh my mom **[00:06:00]** would uh didn't have a whole lot of money, big family, nine kids. Uh and uh we went to the library a lot cuz it's free. And so I would read a lot of books. Uh Sherlock Holmes, The Three Investigators, uh Encyclopedia Brown. I loved even Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys. I I would read all these mysteries and I I really love them. It's something I just gravitate gravitated towards. And uh my mom and I would also watch the Rockford Files, which uh was great on TV. I know I'm dating myself. And uh when I was 16, so it was something I was really interested in. Uh I didn't know how it was going to come about, but I wanted to be an investigator. When I was 16, my my uh uncle George Kaine became a private investigator in San Antonio. He's passed away many many years ago, but uh when he first became a PI, he took me on a couple of surveillances and I would, you know, I was sitting there on the edge of the of the of the seat of the vehicle. I'm sure he was bored cuz surveillance is boring, but I was like I knew we were going to solve some amazing crime. I had my Dr. Pepper and my water burger and we were just, you know, I was really into it. So, ever since then, it was something I've wanted to do and uh I uh I joined the army for money for college, got a degree in criminal justice, and then after at UTSA here in San Antonio. After that, I uh you know, started working for somebody else, made my mistakes with someone else, and then started my own company. So, been doing it for about 30 **[00:08:00]** years. Wow. So you really followed that path because you you enjoyed the whole investigation bit since since you were a kid with I mean we all read Sherlock Holmes and I mean some of like it a lot some some don't but we don't all want to actually get into it. Do you that when everyone is especially at 16 right h everyone is sort of thinking of these different careers that are the common careers I imagine did you have any setbacks did people ask you like why why why go towards that path what are you thinking or was it a a straight easy flow no it wasn't really it wasn't always easy I mean I've worked for different private investigation companies before I started doing my own thing. But um and and and there were people that said, "Yeah, you need to get a real get a real job." But I'm not, you know, we're all we all have different characteristics about ourselves. We're all very different, which is good. It makes the world interesting. I am not the kind of person that can sit behind a desk Monday through Friday from 9:00 to 5:00, you know, making widgets or or doing what have you. uh I just don't have a lot of patience for that. I mean I can sit behind a desk. I can do the things that need to be done but I just cannot do it in this predictable way. And with the being a private investigator I I call it it's the most exciting boring job you'll ever have. So uh every day is different. You know Monday is different from Tuesday. And uh you never know like uh I was in uh where was I? Laredo uh a few weeks **[00:10:00]** ago last month and so you never know what you're going to do when you start following someone. Uh, I followed a guy from San Antonio. He left. Actually, he was in Bernie. He left, kept going, kept driving. I'm like, where are you going? And he ended up all the way in Corpus Christi, which is about the beach, you know, 2 and a half hours away for those not familiar with Texas. Uh, so you never know what what's going to happen. So, that's kind of uh why I gravitated towards it because of just the uh the general nature of it. But, uh, yeah, and it's wasn't always easy. I mean, uh, being self-employed is not for the faint of heart. uh you have to pay taxes which kind of stinks but I mean I I pay them but you know what I mean. Uh and so uh there's all kinds of parameters and all kinds of things and when you have employees there's payroll so it it can be the business aspect can be a real big headache. That makes sense. I see you post a lot about being a Texas private investigator as I mean as yourself, but also you I don't know from from what I gather in some of your posts, you sort of invite people to become a Texas private investigator. Why would someone want to become I mean obviously you already explained a very interesting reason and if you don't want something boring you want something that's different every day but what makes it appealing for someone who maybe hasn't been in this space at all and and might think hey that's I mean I could work at Waterburger I could do get a desk job somewhere or I could train **[00:12:00]** to become this like why why would that be something you think or or who fits that profile. Uh if someone listening is should maybe consider it. Well, you know, surprisingly a lot of people can fit that profile. Um you look at there's I've known private investigators or people who became PIs that were claims adjusters. They were real estate agents. I knew one that was a a radio personality. I used to call them dish jockeyies. Uh I knew one that was a librarian. Um, and so it just, you know, a skip tracer, it just depends. There's lots of different career fields that can bring you here. And I think part of it is just innate. People have this burning desire to solve a mystery or or they want to they have they're curious. They need to find out things and learn things. And that's that's a big part of it. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's interesting and and, uh, funny that you mentioned that. I actually have a course coming up in July, if I may mention that. Course, please. So, uh, to be li to to be a private investigator in Texas, you have to be licensed. You're licensed by the state and, uh, and if you're not, then you get in big big heap doodoo. So, uh, get your license. But anyway, so I am, uh, I have a course and it's it is with the, uh, North Side ISD, which is a Northside Independent School District, is one of the school districts here in San Antonio, and it is part of their adult and continuing education uh, department. And in July from uh on three specific evenings in July of this year, I will be teaching my course, Private Investigator **[00:14:00]** 101, which is and I'll teach you everything you need to know to be a private eye. And uh it's live. I'm there in person. It's not uh it's not online or anything like that. I believe the course is $79 and uh and so if that's something that someone's interested in, it's a great opportunity. You can go to go to nisd.net slac for adult community education and they'll there's more information there. That's great. And I'm glad that the city is doing that sort of thing. I mean the the that's that's the if you didn't catch that the listeners the the school district one of the school districts here has this program amongst other adult oriented programs which is very interesting. I think many of us don't know that. We just think of when we see all the school buses and everything related to the ISD, it's just like for the kids. But but I mean this is excellent that they actually have continuing education for for adults and maybe even not continuing education just actually starting in some cases I imagine. I mean yeah I mean uh everything you can get your GED that way with them. Uh you can learn cha dancing, you can learn how to build a website. You can they have courses in accounting, how to start a business, um how to write a book, how to do a podcast. I mean, they've got everything. And uh it's it's primarily for adult. I think you have to be 18 or over, but uh it's primarily for adults who uh you know, want to do something different, have have the time. That's great. And anyone who's listening live, because we're doing this show live today, you can drop comments in the LinkedIn comment **[00:16:00]** section or chat. And if we see them, if they actually pop up, we'll be glad to answer any questions you might have for Scott or myself. And let me actually bring this up over here just to see if we have any comments right now because I did see someone drop in and leave a comment which was Mark. Hello, Mark. How are you? Good morning. He says, "Should be a fun and insightful chat. Hope you're well. Hope you're well as well, Mark." And Perfect. All right. So, we're I don't want to let you down, Mark. Yeah. We got to say, my hair and makeup my hair and makeup people did not show up today. Uh, so have But that's only because I don't have any. We'll just go with what I look like. And I was telling Scott, my device that I use for my main camera died last night all of a sudden. So that's why if you've seen any other episodes, you'll see a big difference in what the the screen looks like right now. But fortunately, most people listen to the podcast, so we should be good in that regard. You look just like Alpuccino, so don't worry. Oh, thank you. Well, I guess. So Scott, is it like the movies at all? What we see in the movies? private investigators running around people like finding people, chasing them, etc. trying to figure out, hiding behind trash cans. Is Is it as exciting as that? Is it all just dramatized on TV or is part of it actually accurate? I would say yes and no. Part of it is actually accurate. Uh, a lot of it is just dramatized for television to make it exciting because nobody would want to watch a 1-hour **[00:18:00]** TV show of me sitting in my vehicle, you know, with a camera watching someone's front door for an hour, you know, eating some, uh, trail mix or things like that. So, uh, but yeah, I mean, it's, as I, as I mentioned earlier, it's probably the most exciting, boring job you'll ever have. There there are periods of it that are extremely boring. Um, for example, surveillance, which I've already mentioned. It's where you sit there for hours and wait for your subject to do something, wait for wait for them to leave, and then it gets really exciting because you got to follow them through traffic and hopefully not lose them. Uh, which uh which does happen. They never they never lose anybody on TV, but in real life, you do lose them on uh on surveillance. Plus, uh on television, they're right smack behind them, you know. We don't get that close in real life. The other thing it doesn't show in in TV is uh that it's uh hot or it's cold. And uh both are equally equally uncomfortable. Uh like last summer we had several I think we had 27 days straight of 100 plus degrees. Yeah, that is no bueno. I didn't like that at all. So, you know, you can run the air conditioning a little bit. You can crack your windows. You look for shade. There's all kinds of little, you know, tricks of the trade that we use, but you have to deal with the heat. You have to deal with the cold. Um, you have to deal with uh having to use the restroom eating, you know, cuz you can't uh leave and run over to In-N-Out Burger to grab something because right when you do that, your subject's going **[00:20:00]** to drive away. So, you have to be prepared with everything, water, everything you have when you when you go there. So, yeah. So, a lot of that. I mean, like in Jim uh in the Rockford Files, Jim Rockford would get beaten up every few episodes. I've never been beaten up. And so that's that's a plus, right? Definitely. Uh so I I'd say I'd say part of it is is accurate. Uh a lot of it is just kind of exaggerated for uh for the a television or movie audience. That makes a lot of sense. There's the sometimes you'll see some campouts where Yeah. they're cold in the van or whatever and trying to turn, but you don't see too much of the heat aspect. And here in Texas, being in the car in the heat, yeah, that that could be tough. I know. I always see these shows where it's like 100° outside and they're in the van, you know, just having a having a cup of coffee, chatting, waiting for the subject to leave. That's not what it's like. So, but and you can keep it on always because you either have fuel or battery that you have to keep track of. I know a guy I know a PI that does that. He basically he runs his air conditioning the entire time. Really? Let me turn it off here or there, but uh he runs it the entire time and he says, "Yeah, I've been through about six air conditioning systems in my car. He's had to get them replaced because they only last so long." But I I uh I'm getting ready to buy a new vehicle and my new one will be a uh a hybrid. So with those vehicles, you can **[00:22:00]** actually run the air conditioner off the battery with the engine off. So it's a miracle. Yes, that is a plus. I There's a particular thing I like with electric cars, for example, that may apply to some hybrids as well, which is since the AC can run of the battery, it is easier for it to stay cool. So, even if you just park the car and you go shopping, you come back and it will always be under 95 degrees. Oh, I like that. Hadn't thought about that aspect of it. I can't get like a Tesla. I can't go totally electric because for example, the Tesla's 300 miles is all they as far as they go in one charge. And I, you know, if I'm driving down to Corpus, I can't stop and get a charge while the guy keeps driving down the road. So, yeah, it wouldn't work for for what you're doing. It wouldn't work. They're great cars, but any electric. But the that's a big thing cuz we've we've sort of seen that happen where city driving. Excellent. But then you want to take a trip and go to El Paso. That's tough because you have to stop midway and charge for a while if there are chargers, if they're not full, if you're not in a hurry. And so in your case, you're definitely going to be in a hurry trying to catch your subject. So yeah, fuel is still. So a hybrid actually is that's a very good call. That's uh that's smart. I'm looking forward to it. Are you getting a plug-in hybrid? Well, I haven't really looked at the one of the things about uh doing surveillance like I do is you put a lot of miles on a vehicle. **[00:24:00]** So, I currently have a Ford Escape and I just hit 250,000 miles. And the Ford Escapes are rated for about 250,000 miles. And I'm hearing these noises and air conditioner blows and it kind of slows down and it comes back up and uh I'm thinking I I hope this vehicle can last for the next few months till I decide, you know, what I'm going to buy and where I'm going to buy it. Yeah, that makes sense. You have to think of a lot of things. There's everyone and that's why I like these shows because we start talking to people about what they do in their day-to-day and there's so many nuances like what type of car can you use in that particular profession? Do you need a specific range so that you can actually follow people? Does it need to be quiet? like and and I imagine you have all sorts of tools and little gadgets that you might need or help you in in what you do, right? Is there is there anything you can share like little little secret um items that are helpful for a PI that maybe we regular people wouldn't use on a day-to-day basis? Yeah. I mean, uh you know, if you watch Magnum PI, I do not drive a Ferrari. That's not a kind of vehicle you want to do surveillance in because everybody looks at them and notices them them, right? I mean, even when Teslas first came out, everybody noticed them. Now they're, you know, they're everywhere. Dime a dozen. But uh so yeah, so you got to you have to use a vehicle that uh has, you know, it's a normal kind of a subdued color. Black, brown, gray, white, silver, no bright yellow, no **[00:26:00]** bright red, bright green, nothing. You want to blend in. And uh so and and in terms of of equipment, the uh technology has really come a long way since when I started. When I started, we actually had these huge bulky cameras, but you put videotapes in. Oh, yeah. And now now the camera I can hold in the palm of my hand. It's digital 4K and everything goes on an SD card. And uh so that's a plus. Plus they weigh a lot less than those huge bulky ones. Uh, some of the other technologies that I use is I often follow people into a store. I may follow them into a mall and they're shopping everywhere. Or I follow them into the grocery store. I follow people into HB, which is a a huge grocery store chain down here. And we should be getting sponsorships for that. But anyway, and so uh how do you go in and follow someone and videotape them in a store without them realizing it? So what we do is there's all different kinds of methods. There are pins that have video cameras. There are glasses, there are ties, there's what we call button cameras that looks just like a button. It's a camera. My preference though is to use a key fob. And they're just they look like just any other kind of key fob. you know that button for the trunk, the button to unlock to they don't do anything for your car. Of course, when you press those buttons, that's when the camera starts recording. And they record, they have some in like 8K or 4K at this point, but that technology is too advanced for a lot of the clients still. We're still working with 1080p and uh **[00:28:00]** and so I will follow them in with my key fob. I'll uh you know put some groceries on my arm and and have the camera facing them or I don't even have to look at them. My wife watches these videos occasionally and she says, "How do they not know?" Cuz I'm standing right next to the person. How do they not know? It's I'm not look they're not paying attention to me. I'm just standing there with my keys and you know a a bottle of uh of shampoo or oatmeal or whatever. I'm just like any other uh any other shopper. Now one thing I will say is that folks will say why why do you need to videotape people inside uh public businesses and it's only in public businesses those are primarily uh workers comp cases or insurance fraud cases. Uh for example I know you you might find this hard to believe but some people exaggerate their injuries in vehicle accidents and workplace accidents. I know. I know. Really? I know. It's hard to believe, but people do that. And uh and a lot of them are legitimately injured, but uh some of them aren't, but the the ones that are legitimately injured will still exaggerated to, you know, get more money. So, they'll they will have restrictions like they they'll say, "I can't stand. I can't walk for any extended period of time. I can't lift. I can't do this. I can't use my right wrist." What have you? And so that's why when we follow him in, like I follow some guy into Lowe's and he's getting lumber or he's getting power tools and he's using his back and his wrist and and and all the different body parts that he says that **[00:30:00]** he that he allegedly he cannot use. I get that on video and they have no idea. So that's some of the technology we use. A lot of it is stuff that everybody uses. the telephone or excuse me the cell phone uh video cameras which people use you know digital cameras the computer use those all the time so uh maybe not as high speed a lot of stuff that you see on TV and movies that they do is illegal like you know wiretapping we don't do that uh breaking and entering don't do that so uh not everything is accurate that way but those are the primar primary tools I use as well that's something that I actually wanted to talk about because it's very interesting and before getting into my question just to preface it for the audience because there we have all sorts of listeners so some might be screaming and what do you mean you're following them and recording them so what's the legality behind all this uh what just in very general terms um not attorney speak or anything so people understand when this is okay for a certified private investigator to do and what scenarios etc. Maybe that could shed some light on onto some of the misconceptions we have. Well, I'm not an attorney, although I play one on TV. I'm just kidding. I'm not I'm not an attorney. Um, so this is not legal advice, but I can just tell you what I do. So, I'm licensed here in Texas when you follow someone and when you go to a public business, I think legally you are what they call a business inviteee. you know the by virtue of it being a a public business you are invited there now **[00:32:00]** they can tell you I don't want you coming here leave which Walmart does and people uh probably uh Waffle House does after people get into fights at Waffle House but that's a whole another podcast uh so you're you're basically it's basically public and when you're in public you can listen to what people say you can put a camera on them even if I had a a a covert c an overt camera where I walked in and was filming them. There's nothing that they technically could do. Nobody would like it. I wouldn't like it. And uh we don't want them to know that we're following them. That's why we use the covert means. But uh so we're dealing primarily with public property um going to uh you know businesses. I followed a lady to Fiesta Texas and she went on the roller coaster. Now, if someone uh if some of the people there, you know, realize that you're videotaping, they can ask you to leave and you would have to leave because it would be trespassing. But essentially, it's if it's a public place, anybody can go. Now, we're not going to go to your house. Well, we're going to go to your house, but we're going to sit on the street cuz it's a public street. But we're not going to walk up to your window and and look in the window and videotape. We're not going to look over the fence and put the camera over that type of thing. when it comes to your uh private residence like that, we can only uh shoot video of what we can see from the, you know, from the public street. And there are some limitations. Uh like if I the guy opens a garage door **[00:34:00]** and he's lifting weights, he's got the garage door open, I'll shoot video of that. If uh it's what I won't do, and there are different laws, by the way, California, way different laws. So every state has different laws when it comes to privacy and things like that. But people do have an expectation of privacy in their own home. Uh but soam for example, if I uh come to someone's house and I can see them through their front window and they are on the exercise bike or whatever, I I probably would not videotape them through the front window because it's not like the garage where, you know, it's huge and wide open. They have a they have an expectation of privacy in their home and so it wouldn't be something that would look good in court. So that's kind of I hope that answers your question. It does. It does. So yeah, that concept sounds good. The expectation of privacy. So I'm here the shutters are slightly open but someone clearly not clearly but if they're looking they could see but that wouldn't really help maybe a PI if they're they're looking for something because in court it might just look like you're you're sort of snoop. Oh and I will tell you one other thing. A lot of folks will say, "Well, you're stalking. You're stalking me, and that's illegal." No, I'm not stalking you. Uh, a a private investigator is licensed, and if we're following you, we're doing it covertly. You don't know we're behind you. You don't know we're next to you at uh Neon Marcus, you know, videotaping you. And that's the way that type of work does. Stalking is when someone uh follows you for nefarious reasons and they you are **[00:36:00]** aware that they are following you and you aware are aware that they mean you harm and so that that is a crime and that's totally different from what I do. Interesting. So stalking is typically if I'm understanding this correctly known by the subject eventually it will be and the stalking is done in many way it can be on the computer uh it could be uh you know following being always outside the person's house every time they walk out. But the point is that the the victim is aware of this uh of the stalking. And the stalkers do this to to uh instill fear in the victim. And uh if we're doing our job right as private That's that's very interesting. I I I had not actually thought about the two words and the different connotations and meanings which is very interesting. I was going to mentioned before going to the clarification of what you should and should not do. Uh and I remember going to B&H photo video in New York. We just walked by. We were walking in in the neighborhood and and we saw oh B&H the actual store because we know it from online. And so we go in, yeah, this fantastic shop with so many cameras and widgets and everything related to photography and the like. And we went up to the second floor, I believe it was, and they had all these little covert surveillance type things, the pens and the glasses. And this was before like Meta Glasses and all that. And it was so neat. I just felt I was in a murder mystery or something. It just I I just wonder, wow, people can actually just go in the store and buy this stuff. Yeah. I mean, **[00:38:00]** anybody can uh the equipment. Yeah, that's a good point because a lot of people, you know, were using super spy equipment. Uh yeah, not really. I mean, yeah, we spy with the equipment, but it's not like it's something that, you know, other people can't buy. Uh so uh yeah I'm I'm familiar with B&H of course uh from online I think I bought some stuff from them. Those guys are great. But uh yeah I mean anybody can buy the equipment but you know if you are using it for some other reason than PI work I'm we're going to question question you what's going on there. And that's something for in general for everyone. There are tools for the trade that you cannot legally use in any trade. So, let's say lockpicks. Mhm. Yeah. They the the picks themselves are not illegal. Having them on you as someone who's not a a locksmith and perhaps being in the vicinity of something where it looks suspicious, that's a problem. So if you have them because it's a creative endeavor, you're learning, it's a hobby, it's different from actually carrying them with you and being close to the scene of a crime or any other thing, you can really get in trouble for that sort of stuff. So there are tools that you have to just re in any industry uh be careful with even though they might look fun like some of the ones we're discussing today. Uh one should exercise caution to to stay on the good side of the law. Yeah, I was going to say and uh speaking of technology, um like I said, I've done this for 30 years and things have, you know, when I started it was analog, it was tape. Now **[00:40:00]** it's digital. And now we have Ring cameras. We've got uh Nest cameras. We have these video camera doorbells where person may not even be at home. They may be in Duth on vac Duth, Minnesota on vacation. You knock on the door. Yeah, can I help you? Uh so they will see you. they can I've I've actually uh gathered some of that video from accidents that had happened in front of people's homes and the person was willing to provide the video. Plus, you've got, you know, cameras uh all over the house, you know, on exterior cameras because the when when things went digital, it may it drove the price down quite a bit and so folks are able to do that. Plus, you can it's all tied to Wi-Fi, so you can sit there at work and and be on your phone and see somebody breaking and entering into into your home. So, uh, so yeah, so that makes it a little bit more dangerous and, uh, you have to be a little bit more careful there. That makes a lot of sense. We actually have a couple of questions from some of the guests here on the live stream. Valerie Fulmer, do you know her by any chance? She asks, Hello, Valerie, by the way. She asks, "What is the biggest myth about being a private investigator?" Valerie is my wife, by the way. So, in case for those uh you know listening at home, that's that's who she is. She's awesome. The biggest myth I would say probably uh what you just mentioned, you talking about lockpicks. It's the biggest myth is that we do all these illegal things like we break an enter, we hack your uncle or your wife's uh Facebook account. **[00:42:00]** We uh can hack into your your uh sister's phone or your your lover's phone from uh you know miles away. We can put listening devices and you know little bugs in your home. Uh that's probably the biggest myth and that's from television from movies. That's where all that comes comes from. Um are all those things possible? They are. Yes, they are possible. But legitimate, licensed, professional, ethical private investigators do not do those things. And those who do end up going to jail. That's good to know. What is the typical case? Because on TV and movies, we always see cheating, right? There's there's theft as well and maybe in book work related thefts, fraud, that sort of thing. What do you see most often? And then a follow-up to what what would be like one crazy example of something that just blew your mind that it actually happened or that you were actually working on it and without releasing any sensitive details of course. So uh in terms of typical it depends on what you do. So all private investigators don't do all kinds of ser services. There are many that don't do surveillance at all, but they are in the office. They do background investigations or those that do executive protection or those that serve uh process serve subpoenas and citations. There are those that do uh surveillance. So there's all different kind, excuse me, there's all different kinds. Um so all I can tell you is what I do. I primarily do surveillance related to domestic cases, which is child custody, divorce, infidelity, as well as insurance fraud, workers comp fraud. I do background investigations, missing persons, trying to find people. That's another huge one. A lot of people do. They use We use **[00:44:00]** proprietary databases. We use public records. We go knock on doors and we try to find witnesses, uh, people who are heirs to, you know, uh, money. not the GI, not the Nigerian uh print scam, but actual money. Uh, and so that's some of the things that uh that that I do and and that private investigators do. Uh, but like you said, cheating spouses, that's kind of the one thing that that everybody thinks of and they think of that because it's u it's the one that you see most in television and things like that. uh in terms of what what has uh nothing really surprises me anymore uh after I mean at first I was be like some of the stuff I've seen or heard uh but uh I did have an interesting case and I've told this one in the past I hope people aren't tired of it. I did have an interesting case that was kind of uh crazy. I had a it was a uh theft case. And so you get these as uh where the insurance company asks you ask investigators to go out to the home to take pictures to get a list of what was stolen to interview the people there. Now, this doesn't happen on every claim. It usually happens on claims that are uh have red flags, for example. So, there's maybe some suspicion that the homeowner is uh it's a false claim or that they are involved in it, that type of thing. Um, for example, I had one where a bunch of guns were were uh were stolen from a safe and uh I went and interviewed the folks and uh you know, they were nice enough, but they did say that uh they had gone **[00:46:00]** to the range and shot all their weapons. Then they put them in the safe and they didn't close the safe. They had little kids, so that was kind of weird to start with. The other thing is I said, "Well, when did you clean the weapons?" I said, "Well, we didn't clean them." Like no, anybody who owns a firearm, you don't go to the range and then go home and not clean the weapon. I mean, unless you want to get a misfire later on or or or have a weapon that's in bad shape. You you always always clean the firearm after. So, that those are the kind of red flags that showed up. But the case I had was a a a guy that uh lived in uh you know I have to I'm confused because in my book I have to I I tell a lot of these stories in my book and which is available on Amazon. Uh in my book shameless plug there that's good. That's good. And in the in my book I do different locations. I change the names everything like that. Half the time I can't remember anymore but this this was a guy that was in Colorado. He lived on top of a mountain. not a big mountain, you know, high up and there was about three or four houses there. It was a semi-ural area and he had had a he was like 85 years old and he had a whole bunch of things stolen from his house. So the claims adjuster said something kind of weird here. It's kind of I'm getting an off-kilter reading. So they asked me to go up and and uh talk to the guy. So I went up there, met him, nice **[00:48:00]** enough guy. I asked for the list of everything that was missing and uh he uh gave me an itemized list. He had receipts. Uh really sharp as attack guy. Uh I looked around the house. Uh there were no signs of entry. I said, "Well, how did they get in? How did they get in?" He says, "I don't know." And he had this really high-speed security system. Unfortunately, I think the salesperson like took advantage of him. But this was like a security system for like NASA, you know, the NSA or something for a house. Mhm. And so he said, "Yeah, I covered every aspect, every corner, interior, exterior of his home." And he uh he had the the monitors. He says, "But I and I never I never go to I'm always here." He says, "When it happened, I went to town. I was I was gone for about two hours. I went to town, came back, remember he's in a rural area, and all this stuff was missing." And I said, "Okay." So he says, "The camera blacked out during those two hours." Well, that's kind of suspicious. That's what we call a clue in the PI business. And uh and as I'm talking to him, he says uh and these things, there's a lot of stuff. I mean, he had like an ATV that was taken, weapons that were taken, uh silverware, tools. I mean, the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. Mhm. And as I'm talking to him, he kept peppering his his conversation with this phrase, "They all think I'm crazy." Uh now, he didn't sound crazy. He didn't act crazy. He didn't look crazy. But as I'm going on on and on, I start to uh I think that well maybe maybe the theft **[00:50:00]** didn't happen. You know, there's a there's a Sherlock Holmes dictim that uh is popular. It says when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must point to the truth. And so I started to think maybe the theft didn't really happen. Short story long, I talked to his neighbors. I talked to his daughter who lived in town and uh and I found out the truth. Now, one thing I will say, one of the first red flags is there was no police report filed. And I asked the guy, "Why didn't you file a police report?" He says, "They wouldn't file one, which is really bizarre. The police, nobody, they don't like to file reports. I get it, but uh in a theft of this magnitude, yeah, they would have filed a report." So anyway, I talked to the daughter and the neighbor and basically they said that he is suffering from and it was kind of sad the early stages of dementia and he would have these these sundowner disease. So he's really sharp in the mornings and as the day went on he would be less sharp. He would remember less and what had happened was he had given and or sold all these items years ago or recently and so there there was no theft. nothing was stolen and he just could not remember uh that he had given them away or sold the items and plus he was probably pretty lonely uh up there on the mountain and I I got the feeling that his daughter didn't spend a lot of time with him. So uh I called the claims adjuster and said hey it's funny but it's sad. I said this, there was no theft. And I explained everything that I **[00:52:00]** just explained to you. And I also said, but there was no there was no fraud. He wasn't doing this to to uh uh you know, defraud the insurance company. It's it's a mental health issue and he just doesn't remember. So, I don't know how they resolved it. Uh but uh you know, they didn't send him any money because uh they didn't all those things were were given away years before. But that's a very interesting story. But it was very nice of you to to actually push on that and even if it's just part of your report, not I guess not everyone would would do that. Um well I I will say that one of the primary talents that private investigators have and this is pretty much no matter what you do, whatever services you provide that is of interviewing and taking a statement. And when you do this for as long as I have, you I'm not saying I'm psychic, which I'm not. But as you when you do it long enough, you you you start to recognize body cues. You start to recognize language, you can tell a lot of times when people are are lying or they're stretching the truth or they're not telling you everything, which is pretty much all the time. And uh and so the longer you do that, you you tend to really kind of hone in on specific things. And that's why uh with him and he kept saying uh they all think I'm crazy. I started to think, well, he said that like three or four times now. Maybe you are. Or maybe there's something else going on here. So I see. I see. That's that makes a lot of sense, too. And we talked about this **[00:54:00]** briefly in some of the other shows where like the myths of the body language, right? Actually with Mark as well and yes there are these myths where people take it as gospel like yeah these are the tactics and look for this but it's not that and we talked about it in the other show. So, anyone who hasn't watched that show, go and listen to the show with with Mark. But, uh, what you're saying is years of practice and years of experience in the field that give or hone your intuition into knowing what you've already experienced from different people. And our our bodies are really good at abstracting based on many data points. So it's it's not like a magic trick or it's always this, but it's you feel it and you you sort of start as you were just saying there are some cues that for you now tell you is this person deceiving me or and maybe like in this case it looks like this person might be deceiving himself. Oh yeah. Yeah. In fact, if you would talk to you talk to go to any police department, talk to any homicide detective and they will tell you that they had a gut instinct on a specific case and you're like, "Well, I don't know what your stomach has to do with anything." That's because that experience, your little antennas go up and you you figure something's not right and then you try to figure it out. But, you know, I mean, there's a lot of uh there's a lot of body language that um if you've had children, you know, did you take the cookie? No, no, not me. Uh, so there's a lot of body language that you get used to. Uh, **[00:56:00]** you can tell, you know, when people fold their arms and they're, you know, they're looking away from you, they don't look in the eye, you know, that that could be some issues. But yeah, it's primarily just the experience of of doing that for years and years and years where you uh just kind of get a feel for things. And I mean, you have to fight to not be, you know, cynical about it. Um because I I I pretty much believe uh people are not telling me the truth right off the bat. Uh and that's kind of the way things are. I mean, even clients will not tell you everything instead of uh they'll say, "I need you to check out my my wife. I I think that uh that uh she's uh cheating on me." And then they will not tell you uh well, she's cheated three times before, but because they're embarrassed. Mhm. And that's kind of information I need to know because if she has, chances are she is still. And men cheat as well. So it's I just use woman as an example. But yeah, it's just something that takes a long time. Uh and it's like I said, I'm not psychic. Uh there are people that teach body language classes. There are, you know, there's the read technique, which are certain ways to question uh uh suspects courses that you can take. And so there's all kinds of things and but you know it's just the experience I think of doing this for so long. That's that's very interesting. The the way we think things work is not necessarily the real way. Right. It's it's we always learn and I love talking to different people because you always learn from some **[00:58:00]** even from your kids like you were saying. You you just you just watch them and you you learn things about yourself too. Like sometimes you see something and then it might trigger a memory and be like, "Oh, I remember when I did that and you go you go back which is a lot of fun." There was this other question here but I cannot seem to load the Oh, here I am. um by Valerie as well. And there's one by Stacy Johnson. The Well, as Stacy asked, what was one of your most exciting cases? So, I mean, you already gave us a really good example, but what do you have a more exciting one? Stacy Johnson is interested. And then Valerie asked, can you share a case that helped you know you were really making a difference? That's a great question. Valerie. Yeah, that is Valerie. That's a great question. And uh what was Stacy's question again? I'm I'm old more. No, no, no. It's fine. It's too many questions. The a case that was I guess the most exciting case or a very exciting case that where you Yeah. Just Okay. I can answer both questions with the same case. Awesome. And it was a a uh non-custodial parent kidnapping of a child um here in San Antonio. And uh I think the child, this was long time ago, I think 20 years ago. I think the child was around six or seven, maybe eight years old. And the father had full custody, legal custody, everything. The mother had some uh mental health and uh drug issues, and so she was allowed visitation only. She did not have any kind of a custody issue. uh the courts primarily will do what is they're supposed to **[01:00:00]** do whatever is in the best interest of the child and in this case it was definitely the child being with the father sometimes it's being with the mother the best thing is being with the father and a mother obviously um but um they uh the mother had gone to his school took him out disappeared and so the father it was the actually the father's parents the child's grandparents had hired us to try to locate the child and we you know it It was a really difficult case. We did, it took us several months and we did surveillance and one of the problems was that the wife had a sister who looked a lot like her. They weren't twins, but they looked very similar. And to make matters worse, the sister had a son as well, and he looked a lot like the uh, you know, the woman's son, the wife's son. And so when you uh when we did surveillance, you know, it was always very confusing. You don't want to go grab the wrong child. That's a big uh Yeah. You'll up end up in prison for that. That's called uh kidnapping. Yeah. So, we don't do that. So, you you we had to make sure that uh we had the right child. And this went on for a couple of months and and just were not having much luck. I mean, we did surveillance, we followed, we did all kinds of record checks and nothing. And then eventually, and I don't remember how I don't recall how we found this out, but we found out that the mo uh the mother had to be at another town in Texas and she was picking up her uh W2 from a job from previous year **[01:02:00]** and uh so she could file taxes, excuse me. And so we said, well, let's go set up, you know, surveillance on this specific day. We weren't sure what time she was going to be there, but we knew it was going to be a specific day and uh we will uh you know see if uh she has a child with her. Maybe we'll just maybe luck. And we also brought the client with us. Now, normally you would never ever I know they do it on TV, but you would never ever bring a client with you on an actual case, on a actual surveillance. That's a a recipe for disaster. But in this case, because the the uh his ex-wife and her sister and his son and his uh I guess would have been his uh nephew were very similar looking. We had to have him there to make sure he could ID them. So anyway, uh we go there, we set up surveillance. It's me, it's he's in another vehicle, I'm in my surveillance vehicle, and I have another PI, an associate in another vehicle. And uh we sit there and wait and we wait and hours go by and I'm you know my nerves are my stomach's like a ball of nerves cuz you know there's not a lot of uh there's no room for error in a lot of what we do. It's like it's not like being a surgeon but in in the same way it is in that you can't make mistakes. There's just no you make mistakes it's bad for for example taking the wrong child. Um and so we waited and waited and eventually I saw them show up. They parked and it was a big set of stairs to **[01:04:00]** this building and the mother got out, her sister got out and a a boy, a little boy got out and they walked up the stairs. So I recognized the his ex-wife, but I didn't know if the boy was his son or his her sister's son. And so I I I called him on, you know, this is before this is before text messages. I called him on the cell phone. I had to pull my antenna up. Uh I said, "Hey, I don't remember his name. We'll call him Armando. How about that? I said, "Hey, Armando." And it wasn't you, by the way. I'll say, "Hey, uh, did you see them? Was that your son?" He goes, "No, I What are you talking about?" And obviously, he wasn't trained the surveillance. He got bored and tired of sitting around and looking. I I said, "Well, I believe it's your son. They already went inside." And I said, "Well, when they come out, you need to be have your eyes, you know, peel your eyes right on that front door as soon as they come out and let us know." And uh and so uh the door opens, a little boy's there, and you know how kids kind of walk in front of you sometimes, little kids, and they're they're still at the door getting ready to go down the stairs. He's already halfway down the stairs, you know, doom hopping like kids do. And uh I get the call right away and and uh the client says, "That's my boy. That's my son." I said, "All right, go ahead and grab him." So he gets out of the car, he grabs him, runs back to the car. And I moved my car in a position to kind **[01:06:00]** of block them, but he spends too much. As soon as the boy saw his father, they ran to him. He hugged him, and he spent too much time embracing the child, which I understand cuz he'd been gone for 2 months, but he spent too much time embracing him and holding him and oh, I love you and I'm so glad to see you, instead of just getting the heck out of dodge. the the plan was for him to grab the child and go and we were going to just basically kind of block her in to some extent so he could get get away for you get away and get out of the out of town. Uh so she uh of course recognized him, recognized that this is a bad situation. She ran and got in her car and parked it right behind his so he couldn't get out. So it was pretty bad deal. She was pretty much calm. I thought she was going to lose it but she was pretty much calm at that part part. She would kept telling him, "He's better off with me. He's better off with me." And the father was holding his son on the hood of his car, just holding him there. Wouldn't let him go because he knew if he did, she would grab him. So, I called the police. We called the police. They showed up and uh I had the court order saying that the client had all the uh legal rights of the child. And the police were like, "Okay, whatever." They they didn't seem to care too much. and uh they wanted to get the whole story. So, they put the the boy in one police car, they put the ex-wife in another, and **[01:08:00]** they put cuffs on my client and put him in another car. They didn't know. I mean, they put cuffs on cuz they didn't know the situation, which is understandable until they realized what's going on. He was being detained. All of all of them were. And so, I'm just standing there talking to another police officer and I said, "What's going on?" and he said, "Well, we're call we've called uh CPS, Child Protective Services, and we're going to let CPS, this is a civil matter, and it's if you know you deal with police, they don't like dealing with civil matters. They primarily like to deal with criminal matters, civil matters end up in the court, and who knows." So, they called uh Child Protective Services and this woman came out and she was probably 24. A lot of those CPS investigators are really young. It's a really high stress job with high turnover. And she went from one car to the other, one police car to the ex-wife to the father to the child. And she talked to all of them, interviewed all of them. And the police told me, he says, "Well, we're going to release the child to whom whomever she says to release to." Said, "All right. Well, hopefully she makes the right choice here." And uh we handed the documents to the police officer handed them to her and uh as I like to say, short story long, when it was over, she said, "We're going to have the we're going to we're going to uh uh turn the child over to the father, which is the one that should legally have the child." And so we did that. I asked the police officers, "Can you hold her, the ex-wife, hold her here **[01:10:00]** for a while? Let us get out of out of town." And uh he said, "Yeah, sure. No problem." So we, the father and the son got in one car, me and the other investigator got in our cars, and we took off, and we drove several miles down the road in really weird directions, kind of just make sure she couldn't follow us. And we ended up at an Arby's restaurant. Mhm. And uh we were going to meet the the uh grandparents there. They were technically the client. They're the ones that paid. Uh and so we waited and waited for the grandparents. And as they're as we're waiting for them, the father is talking to his son. And evidently, he had been in Mexico. His mother had kidnapped him, taken him to Mexico, and he had been there. He didn't speak Spanish, so he didn't really understand what was going on. And he'd been there, hadn't gone to school, and he had been there for a couple of months. And then she that's when she came back. She didn't leave him there. And she brought him into the where she got her W2. And uh then the uh at that point the grandparents came arrived and they were really short couple, older couple, really cute looking couple. And uh they when the when the boy saw his grandparents, he he lit up and he went and ran and hugged them. And it was just a great a great feeling. It's a kind of ending to a case that we don't always see even with like fraud or insurance fraud. We we give them the evidence and we move on to the next case. So, we don't always know what happens unless we testify in court, which we **[01:12:00]** do occasionally. Anyway, they hugged him and and it was just a great feeling and it made me realize uh well, I'll tell you what it made me realize here in a second. As we're standing there, the grandmother comes up to me and she doesn't speak Spanish. I mean, excuse me, she doesn't speak English. She only speaks Spanish. I speak just enough Spanish to tell the uh the hotel chambermaids that I need the trash taken out and new towels. That's all I can do. Toya Zasora, but anyway, uh, and I probably didn't pronounce that correctly, but she's talking to me. She's talking to me in Spanish and looking at me and her eyes, she has tears in her eyes, and I didn't need to speak Spanish. I could tell exactly what she was saying. And then she hugged me. And that's the one and only time I've ever been hugged by a client. Not a good idea to hug your clients. Uh, and it was made me realize what I do. It's not just a job. I'm not just going to make a burger. Uh I'm not just going to, you know, repair eyeglasses every day. I am making a difference in people's lives. I make a real difference. What I do is important. And it was especially important to them. And it helped solve their problem. And uh and then they left and went went on their way. And it just uh really made me feel good to be able to do that. Wow. So we I'm very unfortunate. I'm glad Stacy asked the question, but the and and Valerie both of them sort of because it was the same answer, but man, so yeah, I was thinking exciting whole other way. This was this **[01:14:00]** was very Yeah, you kept me on the edge of my seat in the whole story by the way. So, it was exciting, but also drama and everything. You're good. The That's amazing. And for listeners, this is one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation with Scott. Sometimes we get ideas of what someone does based on what we see in the billboards, based on what we see on TV, based on what other people tell us about that particular industry. and and some might have positive and some might have negative connotations, but we never really know what happens behind the scenes. And I think this is an extraordinary example of how a PI can change someone's life so greatly in a good way. And it's more than just fraud cases and theft and cheating. It's these these sort of civil cases that are very sad. I mean, the fact that the boy went to another country against his will really. I mean, he didn't know what was happening, but it was his mom and I understand that's got to be tough, right? But but if she had any mental issues or or wasn't in any other sort of trouble and and she was not doing it the right way, it's very dangerous for the boy. And the fact that you were able to reunite that family, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing. And you know, and not every not every case turns out that way. So there are sometimes where we don't find what we're looking for where we're not able to help. Sometimes a client will ask something and like we we say off the bat, I can't help you. I can't do that. Either it's illegal or it's unethical or uh I don't **[01:16:00]** have the training. But uh yeah, so they don't always end that way. But uh you know and I spend I you know for the last 30 years I spent most of my time dealing with people who lie, cheat, steal, commit fraud, all the bad parts of the Bible. And then I have to go home. How's everybody, you know, be all happy? Uh so I've been able to deal with that by being a bit stoic about it. Uh but uh yeah, so it can be it can be difficult to deal with that all day long and then just try to it's kind of like a police officer. They deal with people who mistreat them and are disrespectful and call them names and then they go home and going to play with the baby or take the kid to the park and act like everything's fine, everything's normal and they're human people. They're humans, too. And so it's sometimes hard to deal with that. You make an excellent point. This applies to psychologists, psychotherapists, police officers, like you were saying. And many people, even if they're not in those very specific professions where we know that happens, they might be dealing with a lot of difficult daily reminders of evil and cheating and fraud and they have to come back, like you just said, to their home and and be well for their family. Is there anything that you recom I know beyond the legal stuff uh but what what do you think people can do maybe not a recommendation but what what has helped you be able to cope with this sort of negativity and and be able to be such a jolly character outside of work jolly um I don't know if I'm jolly but **[01:18:00]** uh I have a a brother-in-law who's a professional Santa Claus. He's pretty jolly. But uh um that's a good question and it's something that you have to find an answer to. Uh for me personally, I'm already uh a pretty happy person. I'm already very uh I'm typically optimistic. I'm always the first one to say, "Well, yeah, this stinks, but let's just do it and get it over with." Um so, and I always I try to look for the good in folks, uh you know, right off the bat. So that's where I that's where I start from. That's the the personality or the my the psychological makeup that I start from. Now with dealing with other people, part of it, you know, it can it can bring you down sometimes. I think in the early days, it kind of kind of got me down, but I had to I have to divorce myself from uh my cases, from what I do. I'm an investigator. I am gathering facts. I am looking for information. And I'm looking for people and I'm dealing with people that don't that do not make good choices or or that have done things very wrong. Uh and so I have to say that that's on them. It's not on me. Uh I'm not uh I'm not doing this to them. They're doing it to themselves and I am just the the person that's investigating. So, but you know, walking helps, uh, exercise, obviously, talking, uh, talking it out with others, and that's kind of one of the reasons why, uh, you know, there's a real high divorce rate among police officers, but there isn't among police officers who are married to other first responders, like police officers that are married to nurses, **[01:20:00]** ER nurses, or to EMTs, or to firemen or fire women, fire personnel, I don't know what the term is these days. uh because then they're able to understand each other as opposed to someone who has no experience with that. Uh plus I got I excuse me I've got the best wife in the world, the best listener of anyone ever. And so she uh and she doesn't judge and she's she listens to me and uh she can tell when I'm just having to say something because I just got to say it out loud. I'm not saying it to her necessarily. So she's fantastic at that. She's amazing. So, that's kind of some of the things that I uh that I do. I think I appreciate you sharing that. I think it will help many people. Having someone who listens to what you say is very important. We we discussed this in another episode. We were talking about sort of the business side, but even in business, there's this concept. I like to call it like sounding boards. You can have an idea and you want to you might just need to say it out loud so that you yourself give yourself feedback and maybe just having someone there that even if they don't understand the technical part of it or what you're saying ju as just by talking to them you can get more ideas and and get it out there and let it flow let the creativity flow. So I feel that that applies to when you have something inside that that you you need to release u any feelings right having someone there to listen it's very very powerful and and and I think yes definitely for some a psychologist a therapist etc is **[01:22:00]** is a good option and some shy away from that and that's okay do just having someone who you can talk to. I think just looking for someone who you can talk to and and um get it off your chest like you were saying. I think it's cathartic to be able to do that and um you know people there not everybody can be a therapist. Yeah. Or a psychiatrist and listen to people and help them. So yeah, it takes the right person to you know you have to be in the right uh profession for yourself I guess. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's true. We were talking about how you go into maybe a public location, you're following a subject and you're trying not to be recognized and you're probably very good at that and the subject does not recognize you, so everything goes as planned. Has it ever happened that somebody recognizes you as Scott the private investigator, but you're not really tailing them? and has or have you heard that happen to someone where like are you following me like but in the even if they're not an actual subject but that they recognize the the PI as a yeah that reminds me of that movie Donnie Brasco remember he's in Florida and they're in the airport and a US attorney that he had worked with recognizes hey he starts calling him and uh he's with a bunch of hoodlams so uh one of the guys hoodlams goes over and assaults the guy and say hey he's undercover don't say anything um It has happened. I think it's happened a couple of times. It's been people that I've known and uh that have seen me when I'm actually following somebody in public and uh I I **[01:24:00]** don't recall the actual incidents, but I do recall me saying like that and they got it right away. And I cuz I just I didn't say, "Hey, how are you?" and run up to him. I just went like that and walked away. So I think and then later on I told him what was going on. So, but yeah, uh and then uh being caught by people uh doing surveillance that does happen. Uh it's called being burned or being made. And uh if any private investigator tells you, "Well, that's never happened to me." Well, they're probably lying or they haven't done enough surveillance. Uh because it happens to everybody, no matter who you are, uh no matter how long you've been doing it. because it's it's uh the job takes a lot of there's a lot of nuances, a lot of moving parts, and you've got to really be anticipating what's happening ahead of you, and you have to really be focusing. For example, if I'm following somebody down uh IH10 and they're in a white F-150 and I uh start thinking about uh what I'm going to have for dinner tonight or uh what I'm going to do for Valentine's Day with my wife and I look back and I'll see five white F-150s and I don't remember which one was his. So yeah, so that's kind of the thing. But yeah, you do get made. I've had I don't remember the last time uh it has it happened a few years ago, but uh they just say, "Hey, are you following me?" I just say, "Well, the be the best thing to do is just drive away." When you realize it, when you recognize it, just leave the place quietly. And and uh cuz **[01:26:00]** if they get out their car and start walking towards you, never a good sign. So, normally I just tell them, "No, I'm not following you. I'm going that way. What's what's your problem?" And uh we leave it at that. So, but yeah, these days, you know, there's road rage, so you got to be real careful. People freak out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one. I love your examples cuz I recognize all the the places and streets and locations from here. In fact, I'll give you another story if you got a second. This is how I got this is how I got uh burned once. It was an elderly couple that lived over in Leyon Valley. Uhhuh. And uh they were going to the hospital. I knew they had an appointment, so I followed them there. And I, this was years ago, I was feeling kind of cocky, I guess, like I'm king of the world. I know what I'm doing. I'm the super PI, which is not my style at all. I'm pretty pretty mellow, dude. Uh, and so I I followed them a little bit closer than I should have, and they drove really slow. And following someone who drives slow is harder than following someone who drives fast because they're very aware and they come to a full and complete stop and eventually they notice why is someone behind me where someone's driving fast they're only looking forward. Anyway, they go to the medical center uh and they went to uh Santa Rosa Hospital. I know you know where that is. And uh they pulled in. I pulled over. I'm a few a few rows away with my camera and uh they get out of the car and they look my way **[01:28:00]** and they call some security guy and the he's in a little golf cart. He comes over and he's point they're all pointing towards me and I'm like, "Okay." Again, that's what we call in this business a clue. I've been burned. So, I get the heck out of Dodge. I actually go home and get a different car and I come back with a different car for for when they leave their appointment. And uh I got back, their vehicle was still there. Same place. I set up in a different position kind of opposite. And this time I was very careful and not, you know, being an idiot like I was before. They come out in the little golf cart with the security guy. He's escorting them out to their car cuz they don't know who I was, right? And uh they're looking, you know, their beady eyes are look looking left and right and all over. They get in their vehicle and they leave. I follow them. I think they just go home. But um excuse me. But uh I got them home without any without any incident because they they had no idea at that point. And at that point I was concentrating and focusing on doing you know the good the job correctly instead of just uh you know not uh not focusing as I should have been earlier. That's a good reminder. There's always a good reminder when you're you're starting to get good at something and and suddenly you you sort of forget the basics and yeah, you got reminded. Now the the switching the car thing that that was a smart move. Well, I don't have a fleet of cars or anything cuz I have two of them. So, uh the uh **[01:30:00]** you know and and I knew they were going to be in the appointment for a while and so uh yeah. So, and I lived I I I lived uh I lived in Leyon Valley at the time, I believe. So yeah, I just zipped on home, got the car, and went back to the hospital. So yeah, I was pretty lucky there. Yeah. Well, good circumstance. Is there's a there's a comment here. I mean, so sorry, I closed it because the I don't want to use the bandwidth here, but uh Mark, when we're talking about being I know I know several Marks. I'm not sure who that is. Mark Anderson. Okay. He Yeah, he he he's pretty jolly, too, actually. Yeah. Well, he said, "You both have positive spirits." No, Mark's a great guy. Yeah, he he is. And he he was on the show uh a few episodes ago and he had some very very interesting insights into the whole investigative interview process, which was really neat. Um before we go, Scott, there is um one question I have, if people want to find more about you, your business, and also obviously about the podcast, where can people find you? So, if you want to find the podcast, you can find it on on Apple, Spotify, any any of the formats. It's it's a study in crime or you can go to a stududyrime.com and all the episodes are there. And uh so that's the podcast. In terms of my book, I happen to have a copy right here. Ooh, smooth. Confessions of a private eye. I don't know if the letters are backwards on your end. They looks backwards to me. But anyway, you can find my book. Uh I wrote it in 2018. It's **[01:32:00]** a basically a true crime memoir. Memoir. I never know how to say that word. I did go to public school, but anyway, you can find it at uh in Amazon. Just go to Amazon. It's available in audio, uh, Kindle, ebook, paperback, soft, hardback, and, uh, hopefully it'll be something that you enjoy. And then in terms of my PI work, I'm at fulmerpi.com. Okay, perfect. And I'll put some of these in the notes as well so that people can know where to find you. I really like on your website, you have you have the right to a podcast. If you cannot afford a podcast, why will we provide it for you? It just came to me one day. I thought that sounded cool. Yeah. I was looking I was reading the old Miranda warning and I thought, you have the right to uh you have the right to a podcast. If you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you. And then at the end, I think I say uh uh you have the right to remain silent, but I hope you'll talk. Tell your friends and family about the podcast. So, yeah, doing a podcast is difficult. It's hard to build an audience up. So, I appreciate any support. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone, you should listen to it. It's it's a fun listen and uh if you're in town then great cuz cuz some of the examples might uh be right up your alley. So that's that's right. That's what I found very fun too. Yeah. I like I don't know why I did that. I'm I'm really into pop culture. I'm into all kinds of stuff like that. So I I mentioned uh that kind of stuff. I also uh if I can say **[01:34:00]** one more time if you go to nisd.net slac ace. Uh you can get the information about my uh uh private investigator 101 course that's coming out in July. It's three specific evenings. I start at the very beginning and I will tell you everything you need to know to be a successful private investigator. For sure. Thank you for sharing that again and I'll put that in the show notes as well. Scott, it has been a fantastic experience talking with you, learning about the whole PI space. I know nothing about it. So, so this has been an eye openener and I hope our listeners feel the same way. I know a lot of them will. Thanks again for coming and I hope we talk again soon. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. And you have a very groovy shirt by the way. Oh, thank you. Mine's kind of boring. I should have worn a groovy shirt. It's funny. So, I'll I'll talk about it. This shirt, I don't know where I got it, but so many people have told me in all sorts of weird scenarios that it's a nice shirt or a groovy shirt or something like I'll go to pick up a pizza or something like, "Oh, nice shirt." Like, thanks. I didn't buy it. Somebody bought it for me. But, uh, yeah, I like it. When I wear it, people like it. So, thanks for mentioning it. You're welcome. Thank you so much for uh taking the time to speak with me. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's my pleasure. and thank you for coming on. And we're going to stop the stream here. Thanks everyone. And uh see you in the next