From Battlefield to Boardroom: Leadership Lessons with Joe Frankie III

**[00:00:00]** Hello everyone. This is Armando Pescareno and welcome to the web talk show. Today with us is Joseph Joe Frankie III from JF3 Associates. Uh he does personal branding and career transition but you'll be amazed at his track record and just the level of sheer experience. Welcome Joe. It's a pleasure to have you. It is a pleasure to be here and thank you for inviting me. I want to preface this conversation by saying we had an earlier conversation which was so fun. I just want to tell our listeners the the first time we talked it gives me so much what should I call it just love for humanity because the fact that two people with such different backgrounds levels of experience ages locations and everything we sort of met through the LinkedIn platform started communicating and then engage in a in a long conversation over the phone about leadership, about culture, about the military versus the civilian side. So many interesting things that just after the conversation just got me thinking how much value there is in just actually trying to listen to another person, another human being in front of us when we meet them wherever we are. Because if we could have that conversation and not even be in the same place, it's just it's just magical. It was we we we did have a great conversation and uh yeah, I think we both agreed at the end it was a lot of fun. Yeah. And I uh the I just it's I think we it can remind people it can remind us that when you meet someone wherever it is at work, at uh an event, at an outing, you don't just have to talk about the weather. There's there's there's there has **[00:02:00]** to be something that you have a shared interest in or maybe you you want to learn about what they do. like this show it's about learning what happens behind the scenes in all sorts of different industries. So when I was speaking to Joe it for me it's there's so many paths we can take because there's so much that you have done in your lifetime so many achievements accomplishments and things that you can share with us that just put us in a place where I don't know it might spark some some new path or or a new creative new a new opportunity or something. So again, I'm really happy that we were able to have this conversation and I I want to ask you Joe, just to get started, when we were talking last time, we we sort of spoke of a parallel between what pe what happens in the corporate world, executive world, and what happens in the military side, not the civilian side, and how people are brought up in the military to uh listen, to be proactive, to be given a task and have to complete it no matter what versus, oh, this is this is not what I do. Uh maybe something to somewhere else. So, what do you think? Oh, uh you know, the military is all about getting things done. I mean, um, you know, uh, war fighting is about getting things done and you need to have to do it as safe as you can and you need to do it, uh, uh, appropriately. Sometimes that is as fast as you can. It just depends on on the sign. But everything is broken down into what is the task, here's the condition that you're going to work in, right? **[00:04:00]** And this is the standard. In other words, so if you look at most orders, uh if you're given an order, say, okay, take your 11man squad and take take this hill, you know, well, then it's your job to figure out, well, am I going to go left? Am I going to go right? Am I going to go straight ahead? Uh do I have any artillery fires that are allocated to me? Can I rely on that? Who are the other people that, you know, so you have to kind of think through even at a small level, what your resources, what your conditions are, and your standard is to be in charge of the hill, right? And so, u the idea is we're not going to tell you specifically how to do it because whoever gave you that order is probably not there with you. Okay? So, you have to make some independent decisions. And to me, uh this is the hallmark of the United States military. you know, it's not a central command structure. It's it's orders. I I think we are so far from that in some parts of the economy. We see it sometimes when an employee comes into a company and they're asked or tasked to do something and they either don't do it or they get lost and don't ask or they complain in some cases that that's not what they were brought here for. Well, to me, if you go into an organization, uh I mean, the way I personally feel, you're brought here to do everything. Now, since you're new to the organization, may you may not understand how things are done. So, you get, you know, you get a battle buddy, somebody in your office that's kind of assigned **[00:06:00]** to you to say, "Hey, let me show you the ropes. Here's the way that we do this here." you know, but after a while, u you know, somebody interviewed you, uh, you know, you won, meaning that there was other people available. You were picked. So, you know, people are looking for, you know, your delivery, your contributions uh to the team, you know, in in pretty short order. I mean, if this is your first job in your life, that's completely different. But you know, you've had a job. You know, you you're going somewhere else, then people leadership is expecting you to be as productive as fast as you can. And uh I know uh I always made sure people understood, hey, you you're here, you're part of the team, and listen, we do everything we need to do in order for the team to be successful. Okay? And so you might have an individual part, you might have a collective part, but we're all here to be successful and take care of each other. And I just find out that works best than having these single lanes. I'm only in this lane. I don't get out of this lane. Now some some organizations are built that way because of compliance and other things but in general if you're trying to get things done you know it's all usually a focus of hey this team is assigned to do this if you look at all the line functions in business like that would be sales I mean that is really the operational because you don't have a business if you don't have sales right So, uh, but everybody has to work together to to to make it happen. And this is not to say I got in **[00:08:00]** and now they're going to if I'm in sales, now they're going to put me in engineering, right? We're not talking about that. We're we're talking about within a cohesive unit. Sometimes you might need to do something that's different from what you're used to, but that like you're just saying aligns with the goal of the team. And I love that that the the team in a sense of it's not we're we're just a bunch of separate employees. We're a team. We're a group that's working together. Well, if you're working together, one is is more challenging. It's more fun. And sometimes it can be extremely frustrating. Okay. And the reason I say it's frustrating because if you have a team member that you know is not you know pulling his or her weight and um um you know is is really disrupting things and you know they that might not be a good fit for that particular team. That's not to say that that's a bad person, but they don't fit into the culture of this particular team. You know, hopefully the company, the department, you know, uh, you know, all has the the same culture, right? But if you don't culturally fit in, it doesn't mean you're a bad person, but it's just going to be a long uphill battle. uh you know trying to bring this person along if they're you know got their got their toes dug in the ground, you know, got their fingernails and you know, they just don't want to be pulled forward, you know, into the team. And a lot of times it's easier to work short-handed with everybody that's working together than have two more additional people where you're just having to like check on them. Um you know, **[00:10:00]** you can't depend on them, you know, those kind of things. Um, it's uh it's it's interesting dynamic. You know, I heard a sergeant major in the army talk one time and he said, "Look, if we took every um you know, we had 12 divisions at that time in in the army." He says, "If we took the soldier of the year from each of these decisions, divisions, and we put them all together because we were going to make this super squad of people." He said, "The dynamics are is one of those persons wouldn't be wouldn't fit. They just wouldn't bond with the rest of the the team." And, you know, that's when I became, okay, um, this happens. Okay. So sometimes um you you get a team member who might be more productive in a in a slightly different environment in the company, you know, I mean like not everything is like okay um you know this is rocket science and I need this super degree in physics, you know, to get this thing done. M I mean uh most everything in any company can be learned by anybody, you know, if you put your mind to it and people show you what's going on and and do it and you can be more productive. And so I've got a couple of cases right now where I'm working with uh uh two women where they're in a situation where they're I mean they are pulling the weight. They're doing 50% of the work of a sixmen, six person team. Mhm. You know, and uh you know, that gets old, and so uh what we're going to do is u helping them with their LinkedIn profile, getting their resume straight so that they can go somewhere else **[00:12:00]** and be appreciated for their contributions. Wow. It's one thing if you have somebody that's producing, I mean, and acknowledge it and reward it, right? But if you're just saying, "Okay, uh, this person's the dumping ground for all the other people that can't do anything and we're not making any effort to change the other people." you know, that's one that's not equitable and uh uh and that that that's good. That's right. There's something that you said in our last conversation which I found very interesting and not everybody is going to agree with it but I think there is quite a bit of truth in if we consider it. What is your thought about multiple majors in university for example? Well, personally, this is what I believe and and there's there's good causes and reasons for, you know, other points of view, but I look at a classical Greek education in the arts and sciences. I mean, to me, um, you know, in universities and colleges used to be this way longer ago. I mean you know 50s maybe 80 even 100 years ago I mean it was a classic education in the arts and sciences right so the sciences would be science biology you know chemistry the arts would be you know uh how to communicate in the language writing you know and literature you know because in in in history there's all of this stuff to be learned so where I'm going with that is I don't think you particularly need a major In other words, if you have a true education in the arts and sciences, everybody takes it. It's a common denominator. And then when you go to the company, the company teaches you in 3 to four weeks. It's really stuff that **[00:14:00]** it wants you to know about stuff you need to know in the company and how to work it and all that kind of stuff, you know, cuz all college says is that you started at something and you finished it. It doesn't say whether you learned anything. Okay? And so to me, a traditional education in the arts and sciences is extremely beneficial. And then you pick up what you need to know with your company. And then later on, say 7 to 12 years, if you decide you want to specialize, then there's a master's degree in that particular arena. And secondly, I don't think most people know what they want to do when they're choosing these major. You know, they choose it because they think it's cool or what have you. So I I just think we're we're better off and you know it's a standard way. Everybody realizes this is what you're coming out with. You're basically certified by the college that said you achieve these standards, right? Mhm. And so all college says is you have the capable capability to educate yourself further on your own. Mhm. Okay. So to me, education's all about educating yourself. And today it's even even even easier, right? I mean technically if you just had a phone somewhere in the middle of nowhere India, I mean you could and you had unlimited resources to the internet, right? You can access it. I mean you can educate your your you can get a college education out in the boonies. Mhm. And uh you know when when I was working at it, you know, and and you were trying to figure out, okay, I don't understand the way this professor taught this portion of calculus, right? Mhm. Well, I had to **[00:16:00]** rely on going back to the professor, talk to other people, try to find, you know, get some tutoring, you know, that kind of stuff. But today, I mean, somebody could go to five different people that are showing the same thing on calculus that's on YouTube. So maybe the way it was explained to you, you don't understand. But now you have six different people that explain it and say, "Oh, now that he said that, I get it." Right? So that's why I say you have the power to educate the one yourself. the company has the power, you know, with its own internet system to, you know, continue your education, uh, etc. I just think we all need need to know the basics. And let me share a little story with you. Sure. I was watching on a LinkedIn LinkedIn post. So, this guy said, I can teach you how to read a tape measure in two minutes. And I'm thinking, I got to watch this, you know, cuz I'm he he he was he was he he he headed up a welding school. And think about it, if you're welding, you probably need to measure steel, metal, you know, quite a few things. So, he's talking about high school graduates that don't know how to read a tape measure. And I'm thinking, you know, in the fourth grade, you know, in my little country school, they taught us how to read a tape measure because a tape measure was the thing that they used to teach you fractions, you know, and 28 of an inch make up a quarter of an inch, you know, two quarters make up a half inch, you know, uh that kind of stuff. And so, uh, both, um, uh, men and **[00:18:00]** women in in school or boys and girls could read the tape measure because, uh, young ladies need to be able to read a tape, you know, to cut fabric, right? You know, and measure fabric, measure things. And so, I just thought this was, wow, a high school graduate that doesn't understand how to read a tape measure. Um, you know, there are some basics and I think college ought to be more toward the basics of the arts and sciences. You can always specialize in something when you know what you want to specialize. Mhm. I mean, yeah, think about it. Um, um, you know, if you've been out in the world and you've had two or three jobs and you're going to work on your MBA, you know exactly what you want out of that MBA program. you know, and all this other stuff they give you, you just kind of flush it. You you may remember it for the test, but you've been out in the world. Okay, I really want to understand this. I want to understand that, you know, and you can guide your own education because now you've got the background and and and and you're headed in the in the right direction that you want to go. See, most people do have no clue about what they want want to do. um they might think that, but when they get out there and get in a position, they say, "Wow, I didn't realize this." And so, you know, you got to be able to change. So I I my my my take on it is I think we spend too much time on on the majors and you really need more basic arts and sciences so that you are got the foundation **[00:20:00]** to do other education on your own or you know go after certifications or other things that are going to be benefit you personally and directly. I tend to agree there's this some people will get defensive of course about this conversation but I think it's an excellent discussion point because if you've been to college let's talk about software engineering for example you are going to take four five years six whatever amount of time it takes you to to do the program you're going to learn the most important thing like you just said is going to be the fact that you can do a program that you can actually stick it stick with it, right? That's what they're and most importantly it's teaching you the meta skills of learning so that you can then learn on your own because if you think that the software engineering is a great example because you will do the whole thing and you're going to learn some languages and some application types etc and some databases whatever you want by the time you graduate that's all history everything has changed there's new languages there's new especially now with all the AI stuff So why did you spend so much time learning it or memorizing it for for these tests or for these other things when at the end of the day when like you were saying when you get to a company you're just going to use whatever they are using whatever stack they are using and so now you're going to have to go in and in two weeks learn to do right so everything else I mean that could have been time well spent like you were saying on actual meta skills that will help you be better at **[00:22:00]** learning or collaborating or or any other thing. You know, I saw um years ago um there was a eighth grade test, you know, u from the 1850s or something like that and it was out in a farming community and the amount of math in it and percentage of germination of seeds. I mean the whole u education was geared to you know this was a farming community. Mhm. And but I mean the rigor uh of the education was much harder than than you know I thought it would be or remembering back to my eth 8th grade. Um I mean they were doing you know complicated math and the whole algebra thing where you have a story you know so many seeds grew you know on this road so many were planted and you know you had to figure out you know you you had to figure out things u it's nothing that you needed a computer with but you did need a piece of paper and a pencil uh and you and and and and to get that and I don't think anybody today could could do that, you know, from the the eighth the eighth grade. Not that I could at the time I had the eighth grade. Mhm. Mhm. There is a disconnect with this idea that everyone is the same and should go to call everyone and here has to go to college and do university and do this other thing and that's when there's many types of people. There's those who are going to be entrepreneurs might not need it at all because they're just going to do their thing and not care about anything else. Um, some will some definitely want to take the business route and do it that way. **[00:24:00]** Some will want to do trades and so those might want to go trade school route and just get to work and that's perfect for them. And some are the ideal person who wants to go to school and go through a company and have follow that path. But everyone is different. Well, you know, I remember my father-in-law telling me the stories. You know, he grew up in Brooklyn, right? And there were high schools that, you know, specialized maybe in three trades. So, his trade was being a photographer. So in his high school education, I mean I mean he understood uh cameras, he understood lenses, he understood depth of field, you know, what's in focus, he understood how to take a picture, he understood all the chemicals involved in a dark room, how to process film. Uh there was even a bookkeeping class on how you, you know, sold photographs, you know. I mean, in other words, you could walk into a photographer and you had as a high school graduate and you had all the skills in order to to uh, you know, do that. And so this was, you know, back in the 40s, 1940s. And I remember even, you know, when he graduated from high school, World War II was going on. So, uh, you know, the army looked at him and said, "Well, you're going to be in the signal corps, you know, uh, as a photographer because, you know, we don't have to invest any time, you know, you've already got these skills. We know you can do it. So, why should we waste the time putting you through this drill, you know, and you could be productive, you know, quicker?" And later later on in his um elder years uh you **[00:26:00]** know in San Antonio um he carried the same ethic into um a charter school that he was the CEO of. But his big thing was, you know, in these schools, you needed to teach people what they needed so when they graduated, they could be productive in the workforce in whatever the local workforce is, you know, and so at that time what he was doing is, you know, he was putting people through uh small computer classes. I mean this is back when you know computers were first you know used. I mean they were big they sat on the table but you know uh he exposed them to you know how to operate a computer you know soft not that he was trying to teach them software but the understanding of the bits and byes and you know how how you know data was moved and all that kind of stuff. so that they were at least um had some experience with it, you know, and uh were prepared to learn whatever the company needed to to learn. Um you know, back then it was a big deal. I mean, how you inserted a disc, you know, and and the proper procedure that you don't have any fingerprints on it. I mean, there was a lot of technical things that had to happen with with a computer. uh you know fortunately you know that that's gotten much easier over time and um we were talking also about how elders had you know education. So this charter school backed up to a a retired living facility. And so what he built was since their fence was in between, he built this area, you know, that both sides could secure, right? But with picnic benches under there and he **[00:28:00]** went to this retirement community and say, "Hey, how many of you want to be mentors?" Nice. Okay. So people could meet you know in this common area kind of on the school ground in the retirement community uh and the mentors were volunteers you know uh and help pass their wisdom ideas you know ways to deal with things all all that kind of stuff. So, um I think what we're talking about is uh education and you know education to me uh I think there's certain basic things you should know inside and out and you know to me you need to know those things before you worry about more complicated things because you need the foundation. The foundation is where you're going to build up, right? So, if the foundation's far. That's amazing. I That idea of taking advantage of having those two places so close together and turning it into an opportunity to have mentorship for these kids. That's that's golden. What's your take on mentorship? Do you think people do you think it's a a good thing? Do you think people get value out of out of having a mentor? I think um you know it's up to the two people. You're going to get value out of it if both of them you know have a common commitment, right? Like if you have a really good mentor but he has no time to see you or talk to you. Um, I mean, I don't see I you're not going to get really good value out of that. And so um cuz I see a lot of people saying well you know I really want to get you know uh the head of the department to be my mentor you know and I said well **[00:30:00]** maybe not the head of the department but maybe one of the guys that or gals that works for him you know because this person has got to choose to spend some time by the same token you got to spend some time and if somebody's mentoring you and and you know giving you things trying to help you out. I mean, you got to do your part. They might even suggest you read this book and that, you know, in a month or so, uh, come back and let's discuss it, right? But if you don't read the book, there's not, uh, much to discuss. I I end up helping a lot of, um, uh, junior officers when they come out of the army and they're entering the private sector. So, a lot of come to me and say, "Hey, Joe, I want to get in the oil and gas sector. I want to get into, you know, the knowledge arena or something like that and uh can you help me? And I said, "Sure, I'll be more than happy." I said, "Go to my website. I have a resource page. Go look up the petroleum side. There's about three books there." And uh and he and I said, "If you'll read those books, and they're not small, but they're written, you know, for the non-petroleum person, right? So there's no math in them or anything else. So a lot of its terminology, the culture of the oil and gas industry, you know, all those kind of things. And I said, "Hey, take a look at that stuff. Give me a call. We'll have lunch and I'll, you know, we'll I'll discuss those books with you." And um because I'm not going to make introductions unless you're going to **[00:32:00]** you're willing to make an effort, right? Mhm. If you're not willing to make an effort, why should I waste this other person's time when you go in there and you don't know the difference between permeability and paracity, which are big things in oil and gas industry, but they both begin with a P and they're different. So, you know, uh how can that person have a conversation with you if you do not know the the vocabulary of the oil and gas industry? And a lot of the vocabulary in the oil and gas industry is about you know geology. So um uh you know and so then I I will try to help make those introductions for those people that have made the effort. Right? But if you haven't made the effort uh why should I waste this other person's time? Because then when I call him he'd say well Joe's just going to send another guy over here that's not ready to go. you know, and uh so to, you know, it's all about trust and relationships. To to get something to happen, you have to build trust. And it's a lot easier to maneuver if you have good relationships. Well, how do you get good relationships? You get good relationships by serving other people, you know? So, one aspect of anything you want in life, you know, where are you as a servant? How are you serving other people? And then I if if that's the case then you know uh other people can serve you. You know if you give big you get back big. Yes. Do you think there is a higher percentage of people who serve in the military that when they come out to the private sector are maybe more ready **[00:34:00]** to serve and help others versus someone that doesn't have background? Yes. And that's because the military is the greatest common denominator of people. Okay? In other words, where do you have a situation where you take people from all over the country, you know, you basically put them together, you know, uh whether they like each other or not doesn't matter. They all have to work together. Uh because if you don't work together, equally. You know, it's like, okay, well, you know, Billy Bob was supposed to uh, you know, clean under his bunk and, you know, he he didn't do it. Well, you know, everybody's going to pay for that mistake. So, um, what happens is you have to learn to work with other people. It's in a compressed environment. you're stressed. Um, you have to learn new things fast and you know there's a there's a way of doing that where you can learn things fast and so people have been through this uh experience I think uh are ahead on their maturation process. I mean typically if you look at um psychology books from years ago I'm talking about 40 years ago they thought that men you know matured at about 28 and I'm thinking if you look at now it's even older and that's because as we go in further in time there are less things in the private sector that harden you know men uh for example Uh, you know, if you on a football team in Texas, listen, you get out there in that August heat and, you know, coach got, you know, all kinds of things he wants to have happen in two hours, right? I mean, most coaches are microscopic managers on what they want to get done. But, I **[00:36:00]** mean, you know, I mean, you you you sweat, you have to work together, you have to perform as a team, you know. Same thing with maybe doing a harvest. You know, it's hot, you know, you got to work together as a team. Well, those are uh those experience are becoming less and less with, you know, uh opportunities, right? And so the military kind of combines that in its basic and individual training. And somebody that's been through that, I think, is more open because they've been experienced. They've been exposed to other people. And it's not that they have to like the person. Mhm. They all have to get along in order to do what the collective mission is, you know, and it's okay that we don't like each other, but we're all Hm. That's an interesting way of putting it. So, and it works in business as well. You don't have to absolutely love or enjoy your colleague because you might have completely different points of view, but you have to work together. Yeah. And there's nothing uh wrong wrong with that. I mean, uh, um, you know, I've probably learned more from people I didn't like because I ended up more in a discussion with them on points of view. Okay. In some cases, I I won them over to my point of view. In some cases, I mean, okay, they had a better view of that. And so, you know, we we we accepted that. So, um, for me, I've benefited from, uh, people I don't necessarily like. I I don't want them to be my best friend, but we we we were respected colleagues. They just had a different view of the world, but we both worked together in a place and got **[00:38:00]** things done, you know, uh, and we were both mindful of each other. And I think we helped educate each other because both of us are trying to you know have a point of view. Okay. And uh you know and as long as you're open to discussion. So notice I I said you know. So discussion to me doesn't involve emotion. Okay. Okay. When you get motion into discussion, you're no longer you're no longer in a situation I think in most cases where you know we're starting to judge things you know so I that's why I like uh you know people say well you know it was a debate and I said well debates don't involve any kind of hate yelling or shouting they are just very articulate points of view where you know other people are listening to this and maybe we got to pick one or the other and so uh people are articulating the both. Yes. Yes. It sounds like there there's a lot of overlap between the corporate world, the enterprise world, the executive level and how things are handled in the military. And I think for those of us who are not or have not had the experience with the military see it as whatever we see in film or whatever we get to glimpse in if our city is is a base city. But we don't know really what happens behind the scenes. And we might have some some prejudices or or ideas that oh, it's only it's only that that we see from afar. But it it sounds like there's there's a lot of things that are very similar to the civilian world in hierarchy and also in actual business because there's a business side to the military, right? Yeah. **[00:40:00]** If you look at the the way the corporate world, you know, executes its supply chain, most a lot of it, you know, the army or the department of defense has spent, you know, all kinds of uh money studying and, you know, coming up with processes and all of that kind of stuff. You know, the military was u, you know, the first in RFID technology. you know, trying to keep track of where stuff is, you know, through RFID and that later later bled into this private sector. And the reason the private sector follows the military in some cases is the military is doing the research and development. So, how can we keep up with our stuff, know where it is, track it, okay? And then the civilian world can come back behind that and say, "Okay, what worked? If the military could do it all over again, what would they change? You know, and and uh uh you know, modify it, make it a make it a little better. So, the business side of the military uh to me works, you know, uh a great deal like the the private sector. I mean, you have to get stuff, you know, from A to B. You have to know where it is. you you have to have a process for turning over responsibility of it from, you know, A to B and all all that kind of stuff. And the hardest thing in the world is what I call the last mile cuz anybody can get a bunch of stuff to a port, anybody can get a bunch of stuff to an airport, but then how do you break all that stuff down because it goes to the the last person, you know? So in other words, **[00:42:00]** so if I had a hundred things that came in on this airplane, right? Well, not all of it goes to company A. It may go to company, you know, 26 different companies. Well, the effort and involvement of identifying what that is and having a plan to get it, you know, to the the company. I mean, the last mile is the challenge. And if you look at Amazon, FedEx, and all those people, what what they're into all the time is how do I make this faster, cheaper, done? And there's all the logistics, the same applies. There's bound to be some manufacturing, there's food, there's resources, there's you have all these people that need to be fed, need to get places, need to work, and then there are goods that need to be transformed. And there's there's this whole industry or industries within it that we don't see from the outside, but there it's a huge machine, right? I mean, the Army is probably one of the largest corporate organizations in the United States, you know, and same could be said of the other services. Um, and it it operates uh a lot like, you know, a a corporate. I mean, you know, you have a chief executive officer, right? So, you have the same structure in in in the army. um you know it's a uh you know it's a it's an autocracy. In other words, uh some person is put in charge and they're held they're held responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen. And a lot of times something that fails to happen may not be your command. So um uh but no I think um the biggest challenge uh you know and the reason it's different people see it as different **[00:44:00]** is because in the army you're operating under its own vocabulary and I see this when I try to help veterans transition out of the military into the private sector you know because they know what they did in the military but how do we take what they did and describe cribe that in a vocabulary that a hiring manager understands cuz if you know the hiring manager is looking for okay uh hey I need somebody to supervise this fleet and so the the soldier comes in he said well you know I was a um you know I had a section of a petroleum transport company you know and so the hiring manager has no idea Yeah. What that means? Okay. So, when I was working with this person, I said, "Look, you were responsible for uh 12 5,000gallon tankers. You had to keep them operationally ready. You had to keep the drivers qualified. You had to make make sure that the drivers, you know, from a rest recuperation standard, you know, were doing it safely." Um and you maintained an operational readiness of rate of 96%. You had um you know uh 14 customers in a 100,000 square mile area. Okay. So once we put all that down then the hiring manager said, "Oh, okay. You managed a fleet of trucks." Okay. and and you have a safety record because I you know I said was anybody killed, maimed or wounded you know in that? And he said, "No, sir. No one no one was hurt." And I said, "So you mandate 100% safety record." But see, when he said, "I'm I'm a section leader of a petroleum transport company." A hiring manager has no clue. The only people that would have a clue of that is **[00:46:00]** if the that person had worked in the military in that kind of logistical area. Mhm. Does that help? It does becau that is that is very good the people just helping them with how to express themselves. We'll get into coaching in a little bit but that that part of transforming what somebody already knows and and is already great at and maybe it's just a way of saying it. They might be having difficulty finding a job or a position, but it's just the wording that they're using and they're doing exactly what the other person would dream their candidate would have, but it's just they're speaking a different language. Right? So really the biggest challenge I think is is making the you know, you've got to convey to the hiring manager, you got to speak in their terms. you know they're not they don't have enough time in their lifetime to figure out your terms and you're entering the private sector so it's your responsibility and now u there's more and more AI gizmos you know that's the benefit of AI is you can take person and say okay I did these things in the military and it can help transfer and you know at least get you a 60 or 70% solution Um, you know, when I first started this, I mean, it was just it was like one individual listening or looking at a looking at their efficiency reports and trying to extrapolate, you know, through questions and answers. Okay. Um, this is how you compete for your civilian u equivalent of that. Another example where I uh an oil and gas leader asked me says, "Joe, I mean, you know, we need some um health, safety, and environmental experts." And I said, "Well, you **[00:48:00]** know, I've got uh you know, some people have come out of the army um and I think they would be really good." And he said, "Well, can you I'd like to just take a look at him, get a feel for him." So I I sent this one gentleman over and uh he comes back um he said, "Joe, I mean, I talked to the guy. He's a sharp guy, but you know, he really doesn't know anything about health and safety, you know." I said, "Well, that's because you don't understand, you know, the health and safety and environmental things he's worked with." And oh, by the way, he doesn't understand it either. He said, "What are you talking about?" And I said, 'Well, he's a lieutenant in the infantry, so that means he was a platoon leader in a combat environment, okay, overseas. And so he had 20 uh 18year-old, 19 year olds with automatic weapons and explosives, uh you know, and then he had a supervisory structure that handled them. And first they had to train them, you know, how to use all this explosive and equipment. Then you had to um make them proficient at using it, you know, safely. Then you had to combine getting them to move with each other, you know, firing live ammunition using explosives and not hurt themselves. Mhm. and then training proficiently so that they could do that to the enemy. And so I said everything in the army, I mean, you look at safety, you know, is, hey, I need a health and safety guy. Well, the army trains people with every every technical thing with the safety embedded in it. Don't teach safety afterwards. In other words, there's one way to run a rifle range, you know, **[00:50:00]** uh, safely, and, you know, lieutenants learn how to do that. And, uh, you know, and so doing all of these things, once I explained that to him, I said, uh, and I said, you know, um, they were able to do their mission and not get themselves hurt with a lot of serious stuff that you can you can get hurt with. It's dangerous work. And so and so what that lieutenant's used to looking I said he he you could talk you could take him out to a rig site and he could see whether stuff is being done safely or not. He might know not know the technical term for that but he could look at where pipe is racked, what how it's stacked. he could look at stuff and then what you need to do is train him the two to three weeks or you know month on the specifics that you know you would want him to to know but he already knows safety inside and out. The problem is he can't articulate it because when we hand a person a weapon, all the safety about what you do with it, when you load it, where you point it, all that's embedded in the fact that we just hand you the weapon. So, um, that's just another example of where it's a different philosophy. In other words, everything you do in the army, if they train you on it, the safety is embedded in the in the original training. Amazing. That reminds me of the story you told me of you had this experience in the harvest when someone gave you a heads up of a machine that was coming your way. And it it just brings to me to mind like that person because **[00:52:00]** they were brought up working in the field, they already had that safety embedded in them as well in their sense. And so they could very quickly always be mindful of their surroundings and in this case tell you, hey, watch out. there's this thing coming your way which maybe you still didn't have that sort of awareness, right? Uh yeah, in that particular situation, uh uh the driver of this combine basically cut the grain and so now the combine is at the end of the field, right? And so he's unloading the grain, you know, on the truck. Well, that that the noise out there. I mean, you you've got uh you know, that's running. You know, other machinery is running. So, it's hot. So, I'm standing out there cuz I've I've cleaned the screen. My job I had a broom and you clean the radiator screen, get all the junk off of it. Right. So, I'm back out of the way from him, uh, you know, waiting for him to, you know, pass out. But they were backing up a truck, you know, that was coming my way, but because of all the loud noise, you know, I don't see it. And at that time, you know, it's hot and I'm just kind of, you know, standing there waiting for the next machine to come in. And he jumped up and he was starting to wave his hands and he pointing and I turned around and this truck's backing right toward me. And I'm in I'm in that view where the the guy with the truck, he's looking out both sides of the mirror, but he doesn't see me cuz it's a long truck. And sure enough, if that guy hadn't done that, you know, I would **[00:54:00]** have been ser if not killed seriously uh injured. And even though I might have made a noise on the back of this truck with all this machinery going on, nobody would have heard it. Even if I shouted, nobody would heard it. So I was very fortunate and it taught me a very valuable lesson, you know, that out there run around machinery and moving stuff, you know, about every 30 seconds, you know, you take a a look around and see what's happening because you can't depend on your ears because everything is making noise. Hm. I that's I it's it's we take so much for granted sometimes and and people who have specific scenarios where they work or where they live or by the nature of where what things they work around or in this case a military the way it it it teaches you. There's you get these skills ingrained in you that you might not get otherwise. and they're so valuable but not so talked about. The military gives you a lot of of skills. Skills it it needs. Okay. So skills are individual you know individual task like for example uh cleaning your weapon is an individual task. Okay. using your weapon with a team member and maneuvering. That's a collective task because both of you are involved in completing this task. But it assumes that you already know the individual task of how to move. Right? Now you're moving with two. And when you master that task, now you're moving with four, you know, and then you learn how a whole squad supports another squad and then how the whole platoon kind of comes together. So, it's a it's a building block and it's crawl, walk, run, right? and uh not not unlike **[00:56:00]** a lot of training uh that that is being being done but uh the I think the military collapses uh the amount of training and the way it's done you know they get a lot done in in a fast period of time now a lot of those skills are transferable it's just a lot of them have to be articulated so that the u private sector can understand. Okay. Yeah, they they've done that before. And then secondly, uh one thing I like about people is they're used to getting a mission type order like, okay, hey, do this. Well, it's their job if they don't quite understand it to go figure it out. That means they might come ask you and say, hey, I'm I'm kind of new here. The boss has asked me to do do this, you know. and you'd say, "Well, the first thing you want to do is go to this particular program and log in the fact that he gave you this task, you know." So, I mean, uh, they'll know how to walk around, ask, you know, and get it done. And they prefer those type other than a very specific, you know, do it this way. I like that. I think it's a we were talking about meta skills of learning and like in in college and whether you do the whole thing or just the basis but I think I think it's a good way to go about many things in life like give me a a concept or a task that has an outcome or a deliverable and explain to me sort of how it should work maybe if I if I need I might qualify a little more with you but once I understand it I should be **[00:58:00]** able to now go figure it out and do it instead of you telling me you have to do A B CDE E F G H I J K L M N O P in that order because one I might get bored. Um I I I still might make a mistake because it's so repeatable. Um and if it's so repeatable then a machine could probably do it instead of the person. So if if it's tasks that we have to do as humans then yeah I think we need that ability. We need to uh work on that muscle of that ability to understand a task or a goal and and figure out what we need to it. Yeah. Um and one of the things that you know we talked about the other day was in in the military you're you're working with all kinds of people. Somebody that came from Brooklyn, somebody that came from New Mexico. uh you know all kinds of accents you know they you know that makes up uh you know that makes up our u our army and I think that's what made it strong and also it reminds us that everyone is different right the we were talking about the coaching part of you personally do onetoone on coaching and I I we started our conversation with that and I was very intrigued because nowadays if you go on LinkedIn and you're looking at content there's a lot of people doing the one to many approach the scalable way of coaching which is totally fine and it's a very good way to make money because you can scale it but is it the best always for for everyone? Well, why is it better if possible to coach one-on-one? Um, what I **[01:00:00]** find is, uh, everybody wants what they want, right? And sometimes people are having difficulty trying to figure out what they want, right? You know, because they're in a they're in that stage of life or or something. But anyway, but I always believe if you know where you are and you can define where you want to go, then there's a way to build a bridge to get you from where you are now to where you want to go. So that's highly to me that's highly individualized. Okay? Because if I had a room of four people, they've got different goals and desires, and I can talk in generalities about things that they need to do, but the other three don't want to hear me talk to Roberto over here and give him all the specifics that doesn't pertain to to him, you know. So I I have found that especially working with people on you know coaching them on LinkedIn and you know what they need to do to get what they want is highly individualized. I think I was explaining to you the other day. Uh you know I've had uh companies come and say hey I've got these 40 people. I want you to come here and give a 4hour blog tell us how to do you know LinkedIn. And I said I can give you an overview on LinkedIn. I can tell you the importance of LinkedIn. But if you want me these people to develop um then I I would need to put them you know with where they are right because then technically in any term we would give a test right see okay let's see where they are you know and then based on where they are you would decide what **[01:02:00]** you need to do. So I look at LinkedIn and LinkedIn 101, 2011, 301, 401, 501, 601. So there's PhD level LinkedIn, but most people do not need that to get what they want. So that's why I think uh you end up uh highly individualized on coaching people because one they don't want to waste their time and I don't want to waste my time because uh uh if I'm working with four people that how do you progress them? M and there might be people that have mastered that, but what I found in the 740 people I've professionally coached is uh you know there's no two of them alike. And I had one company call and said, "Hey Joe, uh we heard about you from such and such. You know, you got this great track record. We're going to come in here and we're going to get you all these leads and all this stuff and and we're going to take all you know. we're gonna put it on the internet and people gonna swipe their card for 15 minutes of Joe, you know, and and I said uh I said, "Well, how how did you get these guys uh uh how did you help these other coaches?" And they said, "Well, I mean, they had all their material and all that stuff." And and I said, "Well, that's interesting." He said, "Well, you know, let me take a look at your material." And I said, "I don't have any material." And he said, "Well, how's that?" And I said, "Because I've never coached the same way twice because I've never met somebody's twin that had the exact same needs, desires, hopes, and dreams, right? They're all different. And so I believe that if you're going to **[01:04:00]** help somebody, you help help them on oneonone. I'm not saying that's the only solution. I'm just saying in my experience, I can get further with one person, you know, on their journey than I can with multiples. That's amazing. I wanted to bring that up because we see so much of the other side, which is totally valid, but I think there's a big space for the one-on-one. And I I think some people need to hear that. Just know that it's still a thing. That's still a possibility. And I expect, and Joe, please correct me if I'm mistaken, but at the executive level, if you're coaching people at the executive level, there's there's probably quite a bit more value in that as well. Both time spent, their the value of their time and and, uh, everything that goes around it. Yeah. Because I mean, uh, look, uh, if you're coaching somebody, there's there's a lot of work on their part. And I always tell them, you know, this is not easy. I mean, if if if you're looking to, you know, um really transform yourself, you're committing to like writing a term paper on yourself. So, there's a lot I have to work on to get their subconscious out of way because this their subconscious has been in the way of them doing it on their If not, they'd already done it already. And I always tell people, here are the books, you know, I can give you a reading list and all this kind of stuff, and if you internalize all that, you can do it yourself. Uh, and uh, I've had very few that, you know, have been able to to do that. And and it just requires a lot of self-disipline because in your **[01:06:00]** subconscious you're you're continuing to doubt yourself. If not, you'd already be moved forward, right? Yes. So I found that the first hour is try to get their subconscious moved over here so I can talk to the real the real deal. Nice. I I keep bringing this up. There was an example. Rahul Karan came on the show and he said a very funny example. I think that's why stay with me about the stop sign. Like if we're talking about training, yes, you run a stop sign, the police officer gives you a ticket and and sends you into school again. Take take another driving school. Well, he says the person knows he has to stop at a stop sign. You don't have to train him about why you have to stop at a stop sign. It's something else. So, like you're saying, you you have to if they didn't stop, it's their own subconscious um is there's something else going on there that they didn't want to stop for whatever reason. They were in a hurry or whatever thing, but they don't if it was just the material, yeah, they they could learn on their own. They had to stop at the stop sign. So, I understand perfectly what what you're saying here. Coaching is for those of us who I mean, you know where you have to go, but there's there's something stopping you and that other person is going to help you go over those little barriers or big barriers to get to where you already know you need to go. Yeah. And you know, I always tell people, I said, "Look, you know, if you don't get it on paper, I can't coach it." you know, because uh you know what you've done, you **[01:08:00]** know, in your life and you know, I can ask questions that kind of pull pull things out uh and uh you know that that helps. But um but the bottom line is your history. You know, I had this one guy say one time, you know, well Joe, I mean, I'm just not sure, you know, that's of any value. And I said, "Well," I said, "Is your mother still alive?" He says, "Yeah." I said, "Is you interact with her?" I says, "Yeah." I said, "What's her phone number? What do you need your phone number for?" And I said, "I'm going to call her and I'm going to ask her in her opinion what her son's famous for, and she's going to things." And so if you can't remember it, I'm telling can. That's that's a good tip. That is a good tip. And and if she doesn't, then you probably don't either there. Yeah, there's there's a lot of that, too. I I recently had an experience. Funny when like funny we're talking about LinkedIn. I've never been big on LinkedIn for for a long time because I was never in the corporate world. And so recently I started looking into it and it was fantastic tool especially nowadays and I I had a guest on the show and we we had a great show etc etc but that's it and we kept talking about other things and then one day I changed my profile because now I'm learning about and so I I make it focused I make it talk to my ideal customer profile etc etc things that we would do normally in marketing because I've been taught that stuff for marketing but I I don't know I've I've never really paid attention to **[01:10:00]** LinkedIn. So, I did that and then he comes back to me and says, "Oh, now I know what to do." Like just by seeing that uh even we had had hours of of conversation and so yeah, it's important to to put it down and and Yeah. figure it out. Well, if you get it down, somebody can give you a tip on how to make it better. But if it's not down there, nobody can give you a tip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How did you get into LinkedIn, Joe? That's that's my question. Okay. So, um, a a lady that, uh, you know, I had come out of the military in 2004. And so, uh, you know, I'm trying to get a job. Okay? And back then, you know, people don't realize that, you know, your audience, uh, you know, back then you your jobs were in the newspaper. I mean, you know, the the Houston Chronicle had maybe seven or eight pages of classified, you know, jobs, you know, and so you go through looking for the ones that look like you, and you know, you're going to make the phone calls, you got your resume kind of put together. Um, and you know, you you're you're going and knocking on doors. You know, there wasn't this whole internet of things, right? uh and uh you know newspapers were on their way out but you know not that day. So this lady called me and she was um she worked at um uh Trinity University up in Dallas Fort Worth and and she was in the the area that helped students get jobs, you know, the career council or whatever. and she knew I was looking for a job from another mutual friend and she said Joe **[01:12:00]** there's this thing called LinkedIn and she said I think you know I think it's going to be I think it might help you and so she gave me some information I went out there and so I'm getting on LinkedIn LinkedIn came about in 2003 you know as a startup right you know an idea and they were doing this And it was kind of like this whole resume online thing where people could see your resume, you know. Okay. And I didn't understand, you know, when I first thought about it, I thought, well, they're trying to steal my identity. And I reason I thought that is we had the dot boom when, you know, in the early 2000s where everybody's identity, you know, was being stolen, all that kind of stuff. as a military guy, I mean, you're just you're just hammered over and over about operational security and data, you know, u even back then and it's even more so today. But um uh so I didn't do anything with it first couple of months and then um I started playing with it a little bit and you know first of all I took my resume and I just you know embedded that in there and and then I could see uh these other people out there you know and I just started working with it and trying to take my resume of what I'd done in the military and work time and time again, how do I make this sound more civilian, you know, and so, um, when I first got out of the military, uh, you know, I couldn't I went to a lot of places and they said, "Well, Joe, I mean, you know, you're interviewing for the project manager, but you're the **[01:14:00]** best project manager I've interviewed, but you know, you've handled more money than the CEO. you've handled more uh people than the CEO. You've handled bigger projects than the CEO. I said, "Well, I'm not interviewing to be the CEO." He said, "Well, you know, we're just not going to hire you." I said, "Okay." And he gave me some good advice. He said, "Look, go out here, find some guys putting a deal together. Find some guys, you know, where you can use your whole multifunctional talent and um you know uh and they need it and then you're there at the beginning and he says you get some experience in the private sector that way. Once you have some experience, then you can kind of maneuver. And uh so uh when I was working in this company, they needed we were working on a deal in China. So was trying okay, how do you find people that have already worked in China? Well, the only way back then was you went to a big executive search firm like the Corn Fairies and whatever, you know, and you you contracted with them and they did a six-month best effort to go find you a person, you know, uh but they the ones that had the resumes on everybody, okay? You know, these big databases. And so, uh um we we did that. We were looking for a project manager in in China with Chinese experience. in other words, worked over there and we this firm came back and said, "Well, we gave it our best effort. We're keeping a third of your money." And uh we just didn't find the guy that you're looking for. And then uh I started, okay, got on LinkedIn. I started looking for um **[01:16:00]** project engineer China, all that stuff. So I I'd get a hit. So that person might not be ideal, but at least I find out that they've been in China. Mhm. Right. So then you finally work a way where you send them a message, get on the phone with them saying, "Look, you might not be the right guy, but do you know other guys around you or gals that have been in China?" And you know, so you just get another another couple of names. And so I was able to start getting people we needed by just using LinkedIn to, you know, message and, you know, get a phone number, have a conversation, get other referrals. So, uh, that saved us on the recruiting side heavily. And so I just started using it, uh, a lot. And at that time, uh, you know, my family was in Dallas, Fort Worth. I was in Houston because my son was trying to graduate from high school. So during the evening I would work with LinkedIn you know uh and um try to connect with people you know uh that would really be neat to connect with mainly CEOs, decision makers, all that stuff. Craft you know messages and just you know build up um a good portfolio of good people. Mhm. and I had the time, right? Because, you know, my family wasn't uh with me. And um so I I I did that and so I got to be u pretty sharp on LinkedIn and it wasn't as as sophisticated as it is as it is now. So then after about a year of this, I started coaching on LinkedIn mainly happen helping the military. I said, "This is a great tool. If you get on it and **[01:18:00]** you explain what you did in the military in civilian terms, this is going to be easier for you." And then secondly, I could help people without physically being face to face. You could do it over the phone, you know, that kind of stuff or they sent you stuff. So, I really started my coaching in 2005. So, I've been coaching on LinkedIn for 20 years. And uh you know I did it as a ministry for about 1,200500 people and then you know started doing it as as a professional Wow. So you go back to the roots of LinkedIn and Yeah. I could call I could call the chief of marketing on LinkedIn on the phone and he would talk to me. Amazing. I was one of their I was one of their aggressive users. Uhhuh. Early, right? And uh you know uh you know you could you know and they were interested in what I was seeing and you know the feedback and now LinkedIn doesn't have anybody I think that has a phone number. Yeah, that's likely. And then they've moved ownership and all that. And so I Well, yeah, cuz they went from, you know, they got acquired by Microsoft and uh and a lot of times people would say, well, why do I want to learn this LinkedIn deal? I said, well, I said, it's going to be around a while. And he said, why do you think that? Somebody else will replace it. And I said, well, somebody else will compete with it and Microsoft has the cash to buy them and integrate them. And that's what that's what you see is the whole education part of LinkedIn. You know, Linda had that and you know, Microsoft bought Linda for 3.2 billion **[01:20:00]** and Yes. I don't think it's going anywhere. It's getting a lot better if if anything. And the fact that and I don't know if if you you follow him at all, but Gary Vaynerchuk, he he does a lot of media. uh thinks he owns a huge media business, but he's out there and he's a lot into Tik Tok and Instagram and all that. But he still, even with all that, he still for B2B mentions LinkedIn as the tool that you have to get into if you're doing any sort of B2B, you need to be doing content on LinkedIn, right? So to me, LinkedIn is the best uh business marketing and business intelligence tool on the planet because I mean if you're a business whether you like it or not, you here. And I I and I love we're having this conversation because it's for for so many years I just saw it like as a glorified PR place like people would would just just whatever I saw and that was just because of how my feed was. I guess I would I would only see oh this person now got a job or this person got this other thing or now they released a new office and that's all I would see. But now there's so much content that people are putting out. They're teaching through it. they're sharing and it's become a a learning experience apart from a networking experience but like you said since all businesses have to be there it comes a lot of of you comes along for the ride because I can reach out to someone called to to to start a conversation but they can immediately see who I am and who I'm related with and how if if **[01:22:00]** I'm posting how my content has evolved through time. Whereas if I just send them an email, there's no background. It is. And it it's got a lot of tools. And what I've learned uh with it is I have my go-to people in certain countries. Like if I really want to know something that's happening on France, I've got uh two retired military guys uh over there that are, you know, in business like me. And uh so if I want to understand something that's going on, you know, I just reach out to them, you know, or call them on the phone and say, "Hey, can you give me a three minute dump on this cuz I'm I'm not understanding, you know, what's going on in France, you know, with with that." So you end up with all your go-to people in all these uh countries if you need to reach out to them, if you need need help, by the same token, they're reaching out back to me as well uh for you know understanding things or can can you help me with this? So it's a huge um using it properly. I think you are the subject matter expert here. There are so many people that are sharing like the tips and tricks and this is what you need to do and they even sell courses and things like that and it's all great but at the end of the day I do you think many of the strategies which is common sense networking truly listening to the other person and being interested that worked for you 20 years ago still sort of apply today right? Yeah. So I'll give you an example uh about you know um you know I get people um that want **[01:24:00]** to connect with me you know I'll get um anywhere from uh 10 to 20 a day and so I'll go through them and if somebody you know hasn't sent me a note with that they just want to connect you know Um, I'll send him a note back and saying, "Hi, you know, um, I have, you know, we haven't met, you um, hey, this is what I do. Uh, here's a calendar link. Let's get on a 15minute phone call, you know, because I haven't met you. I don't know you, you know." And um so what comes back from that is about 87% of the people do not respond back. So I don't know if that was a chatbot, you know, a computerenerated request or maybe they don't want to take the time to um have a brief conversation. But if you're not willing to have a brief conversation, why in the world would I be want to be connected to you if you're not going to talk to me? That means there's no effort, there's no relationship, you know, and so to me, uh, your LinkedIn network in today's time is all about quality, not about quantity. In fact, the one of the originators on LinkedIn, one of the chief architects, he wanted to make LinkedIn like a German town, small German community where everybody knew. And they were going to limit your connections to 50. Wow. And one of the the only reason they abandoned that model was that Facebook, you know, went out and you could get, you know, a bazillion if you wanted them, you know, and so I think they thought they needed to compete with Facebook. But his original thing was, you know, 50 go-to people, you know, and when you **[01:26:00]** think about it, I mean, how many really good friends do you have, you know, you can probably count them on one hand, you know, that you could call up the middle of the night and, you know, they'll react. Mhm. you know, so uh so imagine if you had, you know, 50 or even 15 people all over the world that treated you absolutely with the same equal relationship. I mean, that's just too that is powerful. Mhm. And so LinkedIn gives you these tools. And so, um, my point is, uh, I don't want to I don't want to be I don't want to take up time with people that just want to be connected to be be connected. And then secondly, if I'm having a conversation with somebody, one, I know they're real. I know that they can speak the English language and you know they're worth connecting with because we've had a conversation. I really like that. And when we spoke, we started chatting and I I really like that you did that because it it it's different from most people. and and then you you asked me to call and I said of course because we're trying to have a human conversation and it turned out into a very long conversation but again like I said at the beginning of the show the it just brought some renewed trust in in the our power to connect with other people in a real way even if we're are absolutely u u you know I I've coached in I think uh 15 different countries and I've never advertised which means that people have found me you know as opposed to uh me trying to go out to 15 different countries and find clients right so I I'm **[01:28:00]** a big believer in that you know if you build a worldclass LinkedIn profile you They will come. If you build it, they will Amazing. Joe, it has been another incredible experience talking with you today, just like the other day. And I really wanted other people to to get some of these golden nuggets that you keep giving us. I would like us to close with something that you told me last time and I think it was an African saying. Could you could you share that with with our listeners about what happens when when an older wise wise person goes away? Yeah. So, one one thing we were traveling in Africa in 2018 and I saw this in more than one country but it's it's kind of like their version of a you know a proverb right African proverb. I mean I saw it in artwork. I saw it on on tile, you know, and if you reme if you think about it, you have to remember that Africa is a tribal society. I mean, they have nations, right? You know, there's borders, right? But really, it's all about, you know, the tribes. And so, they, this proverb says, you know, when an old man dies, we lose a library. Okay? Because when you think in a tribe and if you go visit tribes, a lot of them, you know, they're not they're they're not sophisticated and what we would call sophisticated, but their way works. I mean, they support their people, they take care of their children and all of that kind of stuff, but what they rely on is the the elders are their libraries. That is amazing. I I think we all need to remember that because there's so much we can learn from **[01:30:00]** experience, from others experience that uh that's why I I was so honored that that you would have the call in the first place because of your trajectory and and I've learned so much in just the brief time that we've we've spoken. So I I really want that for for everyone as well and I really thank you for sharing that proper. I really enjoyed it last time as This was this was fun. I I enjoyed the conversational uh style. I think it's easy to listen to and it's easy to interact with. Yes. Thank you so much, Joe. And if people want to find you, what's your website so that people can find you? I put it in the show notes as well. Okay. Uh my website is uh jfi iii associates.com. So that stands for JF3 uh Associates because I'm Joe Frankie III. And we've got a book out there if you're interested on in LinkedIn. It's a 1-hour read called LinkedIn uh the five minute drill for executive networking success. Now we say executive, but it's being used in high school business classes mainly because it's a one-hour read. Nice. I I'll make sure to put that in the show notes. I'll put your website, the book, and your LinkedIn as well, so people can see some of the content that you're posting. But it has been a true pleasure, Joe, and I hope we talk again soon. I look forward to it, and thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks.