What If Your Doctor Only Has 11 Minutes to Figure Out What's Wrong With You

**[00:00:00]** Hello everyone. My name is Armando Perez-Carreno and welcome to the Web Talk Show. Today with us is Joshua Resnikoff from Sunstone Health. Welcome Joshua. How are you? I'm good. It's great to be here man. Thank you. No, it's a pleasure to have you. I want listeners to know what Sunstone Health is first of all and also how you got to be at Sunstone Health. I think it's a I' I've read a little bit about it and I think it's a a touching story. So, can you share a little bit about your background? Yeah, happy to. Um, so my background is biomedical engineering. So I was uh I was really a bench scientist at at a place called the V institute for biologically inspired engineering at Harvard Med. Um, I'd worked at MIT and I did my grad work at TUS. Uh, mostly on what we call wet labs. So like really working with cells and and putting them into a system called micrfluidics. Um, did a whole bunch of work there. We built patents. It's it's a whole company now called Emulate Bio. It's fantastic work. I'm very proud of that work. Um, I started a few other companies, some consumer product stuff, couple did pretty well. Like I I had a I had a very interesting sort of diverse background. And then my story really takes a takes a pivot into the healthc care world with um not the birth, but about a year and a half into the the life of my second child. And so what happened is that um you know he was a totally normal healthy little kid um which is really sort of the standard for a lot of these kids. And then he started having monthly fevers of 105 degrees. And for anybody who has kids or anybody who doesn't at 105 degrees with a with a small child, let alone a a big kid, you're going to the ER. There's just no real way about it. Uh so we started to go to the ER all the time and it was just very frustrating. You know, he he kept having the same symptoms and we kept not getting anywhere with answers. It took us years and years and years of of going **[00:02:00]** and and managing through this process to to get to anything that even felt like a diagnosis, which was a a good moment, but but a very challenging moment because there was nothing that that could be done for my son there. He's about one of 500 kids who has the hyperinflammatory issue that that he has or one of 500 kids in the states that we know about. Um we are really fortunate in a lot of ways like 98% of the time you wouldn't know that he's sick. Uh he just has a lot of internal issues that mean that when he gets sick he's just the sickest child you've ever seen in your entire life. and everything from uh uh you know lymph nodes that are almost like permanently little rocks underneath his skin to joint pains that's so acute he's on the ground crying like things that just manifest in sort of terrible ways. But really at the end of the day what happened for me is is coming face to face with the limitations of the health care system and of science. uh despite the fact that that as a community scientifically like we're never we've never been in a better place to help these kinds of patients. So my what what it birthed for me was just this mission to go make sure that other families don't have to go through what my family has gone through and really to end what is called the diagnostic odyssey and that's that's really the genesis of Sunstone Health. What is that diagnostic odyssey for for someone who's just completely have never had anything like this? They're just living their life, right? And uh gliding through it, right? Um what what types of challenges do parents or or people in general face when when it's when it's a diagnosis that's not just as simple as black or white? Yeah. Well, so for better or worse, like everyone's taken a small diagnostic odyssey, whether whether you call it that or not, right? Like everyone or really anyone, maybe not every single person. And and you know, bless those who have never had to go through this this process, but if you ever have had to get referred **[00:04:00]** to specialty for like a weird mole or, you know, a bone issue that isn't a broken bone, like something that required a second look, you're not going to that doctor tomorrow. you're going to that doctor in 6 months or 9 months which is the first available appointment they can get you in on. So just compound that for a child or an adult in that in this case for whom uh symptoms are not straightforward right so you have a symptom from this disease over here and another symptom from this disease over here and I've never really seen anything like this and medical school didn't really train me for how to deal with this sort of thing now you need to go see another specialist and you get another referral and you just end up bouncing through the system waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and it's the waiting that is the worst part, right? Because the whole time it's not like your disease or your issues are on pause or maybe self-resolving, right? Chances are that like what is happening is that it is getting worse and worse and worse for you or your child as those things go on and are left untreated only to compound on on that issue. And so for families um and kids in particular who are on what is called the rare disease diagnostic odyssey on average not just in America but globally but here in the states we'll just focus on that. It takes about seven years to go from that first complex symptom that doesn't really align with the perfect disease perfectly to a treatment plan that works for you. And what we've been able to do at Sunstone Health is identify those patients very very early in that process. So, um, flag them as someone who needs a second or third look by a specialty to make sure that they're going to get the diagnosis they need. We can surface them and get them tracked to, uh, what's called a whole genome diagnosis, um, very, very quickly. So, you know, that takes a few weeks to do the sequencing and then we can deliver specialist results back to them. And instead of taking seven years, our tech has just been able to force those functions to work **[00:06:00]** together really quickly. So we can deliver that same treatment guidance in about 12 weeks to families. Once mom and dad say yes to me, it's about 12 weeks. And that obviously has significant impact on patients health and well-being and stress for the family and all of those things. And that's that's our mission. We want to end the diagnostic fu uh the diagnostic odyssey for families um and just make sure that that everyone gets the health care they deserve and and gets to try to live the life that that we all believe we deserve as well. That's that's a wonderful mission. I think that there's a lot to ask here, but I'll I'll start by asking why it takes so long typically without something like Sunstone Health. Is it a lack of um experts in that field compared to the amount of cases that there are or where's the bottleneck? Uh it's a great question. Um and probably something that will take much longer than 30 minutes to fully pull apart. The the problem is definitely I mean you can definitely align some of it with um a lack of local expertise who can see the patients who need help. you can align some of it with the problems that when doctors get a patient in front of them, they have about 11 minutes to make a make a decision about what they're looking at because of the way that um the economic incentives are built for doctors to see as many patients as possible, right? So, your doctor doesn't necessarily have the time to dig into what's wrong with you. They're just trying to treat the thing that's the most wrong in front of them today. And so if you if you don't have something that is very easy for them to solve in the immediate, the best option they have to keep their turnaround time **[00:08:00]** quick is to refer you to somebody else. All right? And so you get caught in this sort of like Kofka-esque machine of the health care system, let alone I mean, god forbid like they want to do something and your health insurance won't reimburse them for it and then you have to go back to the back of the line to start the process over, right? It's it's just I think it's mostly just the bureaucracy because most doctors got into this because they want to help, right? Like doctors and like hospital administrators like all these people have good intentions. No one no one like decided to go work in medicine because they wanted to like screw a patient. You know what I mean? Like like no one wanted to like make a patient less healthy. But, you know, like everybody, they they have bosses and there are systems they have to conform to. And some of it is just the the the way the current health care and health insurance have this horrible codependence on each other. Um, for who ultimately gets to make the right decision and and what that care is. And for better or worse, health insurance certainly seems to carry the day in that decision-m for paying for the next cheapest possible thing, right? And so that's really one of the things that we unlocked Armando with with Sunstone Health is that we are able to sell a financial product, a benefit to employers who run their own health plan that really is just a way for them to save a lot of money by going all the way to the end to get the results first. So, we just drag we drag that best diagnostic all the way to the front instead of doing 30 different maybe incrementally better diagnostics along the way. Because for health insurance, they're like, "Well, I could spend $1,000 today, but maybe I only have to spend $920 if we can figure out the right right thing." Now, that might take six years of time, but like in someone's actuarial table, they just saved 80 **[00:10:00]** bucks, right? all while the patient is getting worse. So, there's there's a there's a real human cost to to trying to nickel and dime the patient I I think that's the biggest problem Yeah, I agree. I've I've heard different um done some research about it as well and it seems to be that this sort of system that's codependent uh with insurance companies and and providers or the way it's established it the incentives are the opposite of what they should be, right? Because like you were saying about it's like oh speed versus and and it just doesn't make sense as in a human way. It makes sense in a financial way Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, right? So like like you just if the minute you sort of start sort of to peel back the layers on the onion of like health insurance and healthare, right? Hospitals even if they're technically nonprofits are set up to be profitable a lot of the times, right? especially, you know, and and again, like maybe that's a different podcast, but the way doctors and hospitals get paid is to run tests, to run services, right? So, like they're actually incentivized to run as many MRIs or blood draws as possible, right? Like that's how they make money. Insurance is incentivized to not pay for as many of those things as possible. So right away you have a tension between the two parties who are controlling how you as an individual get access to healthcare, right? And you you show up like you're having a critical moment, right? Your your bone is broken, your kid is maybe having a seizure, like whatever that looks like. You are not it's not an open market, right? You're not an informed **[00:12:00]** consumer. You're not your kid is having a seizure. You're not like, well, hospital A has this rate and hospital B has this rate. like, well, we maybe we have a coupon for hospital C. Like, that's not you're like, we got to get as to the best care provider as fast as possible. Um, and so, so there are these like very bad economics that surround the ability for a patient or a family to actually get to the best care as fast as possible. And again, like if if the doctor's like, "Hey, you know what? I have a hunch. I don't know what this thing is. There's no diagnosis code for me to align this thing, but like I think this kid needs an MRI. If that feels exploratory to health insurance, health insurance is like, "Nope, deny. We're not going to pay for it." And then what happens? That doctor wants to run the test so they can figure out what's going on with the kid and their boss is like, "Hey, we're not going to pay for that cuz the that that money is going to come out of the hospital's budget." And so now that doc's like, "Well, I'm not even going to try to order this because your insurance doesn't cover it." Like, how many families have heard that before? like, hey, we could do this medicine, but your insurance doesn't cover it, so we got to stick with this other crappier medicine that's only half as effective. And I think for most of us on the like consumer side of this thing, that just feels insane, right? Like like not not even just from the trust that you place in your healthcare provider to be the person who's going to give you the best experience possible. The idea that somebody is gatekeeping your health because it's not as financially lucrative for them as possible. Like to me to me that is a moral failing. Personally, I agree. I And also you see these you'll see a lot of examples of this. someone has an incident, they go, they get the care or they get denied the care, whatever the **[00:14:00]** case may be, but the claim is not approved by the insurance. And and then you're like, well, why didn't you cover this part? And they're like, no, well, because XYZ doesn't apply or because it's exploratory, whatever that may be. Yeah, but if you really think about the numbers, if you're paying for a small family $2,600 a month for years and just going up and then suddenly they don't want to pay for a $4,000 thing, you it just doesn't doesn't make any businesses either. Like if you look at it and for them of course but for the in a whole if this was audited it would like I don't this this doesn't seem like a fair exchange. Dude what one of my kids just had to take an ambulance ride and you know scary moment. I'm very happy the ambulance exists and then I got the bill for the ambulance and our portion to cover is like $1,200. I mean, hey, we we've been paying for, you know, we we pay about $2,700 a month for our family of five. Um, you know, our deductible our our old deductible is about $18,000 a year. I think our new deductible with our slightly improved plan is like $12,000 a year. But I'm like, well, what did I just to your point like I just paid out of pocket $2,700? like shouldn't that cover this $1,200? Like where the math isn't mathing very well for me, right? Um and I think for most people, you just feel like you're getting taken advantage of. And I think I like the joke I tell all the time, go into a bar, go into a baseball game, right? And I'm like, find me a single person here who likes their health insurance company and I will buy everyone here a drink. Every single person here a drink. And I ne I haven't bought a single drink yet, you know? Like it's **[00:16:00]** I think that that like if you can't find one person who has a good thing to say about a product that they're forced to use, that should tell you something is wrong right off the bat. And that's another thing that you're forced to do it. And so many people end up paying for it because of the fear, not of their health necessarily, which is a valid reason to do it. Of course, you need you have coverage. Um, but some people might get into so much debt just to be able to pay the health insurance for fear of not having it because they have to have it because they know everything is super expensive when they say see hospital bills that then they might lose their home. they might like go into depression and there's all these other downstream effects of that fear that has been put into people that you need to because otherwise I mean you never know it could be super expensive and what are you going to do but then you end up like putting yourself in a hole because of a maybe right it well it I as a parent of a kid who goes to the hospital a lot right Like one of the worst calculations that I end up making is like is this a hospital visit or is this not a hospital visit, right? Like no parent should have to like and we do okay like we're solidly middle class, you know? Uh we don't have a concierge doc or anything like that, but like when we weren't middle class and we were like, you know, we're like food is always a bit on the table. But like I I appreciate the the thought process that goes in for so many people of like, hey, does this qualify as a medical emergency or a medical necessity, you know, and I just can't come to grips with the idea that people have to make that kind of decision about whether or not they should be able The other crazy part about this too is if you talk to doctors, right, or you talk to health insurance, even health plans, **[00:18:00]** really, they'll be like, "Ah, the best thing we could do would be have proactive doctor treatment. ments if patients would only come in more, we could help them be healthier. And you're like, "Yeah, patients don't want to come in more because they don't want to spend $400 to go see the doctor if nothing's wrong with them." Like, if you if you made it available, I bet you if it was 40 bucks, they might do it more often. You know, everybody's like got that bump they're worried about, like, you know, the classic story of like you you go to a party and someone's a doctor, you're like, "Well, what about this weird mole I have?" You know? Um, so anyway, it's uh it's I think the whole system is ripe for an overhaul and and honestly we built Sunstone Health to make the parts fit together and work well. And it's really just about making healthcare work the way that we think it should. And if if the system worked, like my company wouldn't exist, but I think I'd be pretty okay with that at the end of the day, right? That's a great way of putting it. When you can safely say that might get me out of business, but everyone would be healthier and happier and I would just do some other thing like that sort of points in the right direction. I think morally at least there'll always be some sort of gap to solve. But yeah, if I mean look, if if if the system had found my kid earlier, had treated him well, if uh if therapies were available, I would never have started this business, right? Like all of my all of my the whole business is built out of the crucible of my frustration with the lack of things that were happening for my family. And then as you start to like pick that apart and you realize, hey, there's actually 30 million Americans who have a similar issue to my kid from a genetic basis. And then you start to pick that apart and you're like, oh, hey, there's 300 million Americans who hate their health insurance and health care process because it takes too long and they get sick. Like, yeah, this is a problem worth digging into, you know. Um, **[00:20:00]** and so really, yeah, at the end of the day, we we've already done our work for hundreds of families. I know that we've been successful in helping them. We want to help thousands, if not millions of families, right? And like that's why I say, you know, my mission is to help families. We are we are a for-profit company, so I have, you know, I have to be a good steward of capital for my investors and we have to make returns. But I don't think that we need to make returns on the backs of people. I think that we can make returns while we're helping people. And I don't know why all of the other big players out there, you know, all the the major health plans, who I probably shouldn't say on your podcast, I would neither one of us get sued, but like you can use business as a force for good. Business doesn't have to be an inherently like dark side of the force issue. And so for us, we just try to make make it work in a way that aligns incentives for employers, for payers, for patients, um, and for my investors, right? And everybody gets to win. That's great. And also we we had another episode where we were talking about and you briefly mentioned it earlier. There's a large number of people with autism and other similar uh items on the list. And it's it's tough because there while there are plans and there there are benefits that they can get or some some can get, right? The the amount of them, the availability of them is scarce compared to the number of people that need them. And the wait lists for some of these programs are seven years or or more. And so we were in that other show episode we were talking about how the because of your point right now of the business side like everything has to sort of be a like a nonprofit thing or an organization or **[00:22:00]** things but at the same time it could be a done as a business that wants to help like you can still make profit while helping right it doesn't have to be all donation based it doesn't have to be all nonprofit type things like you can actually do things in a good way with a good I don't know intention and and still make a lot of money out of it and and help people and with that money help more people and and grow right I don't at least that's my my thought no that's listen that's my hypothesis as well like when you know when you when there are so many good patient advocacy groups out there are so many good nonprofits out there people moms and dads all over who get a sick kid and they want to raise some money on a GoFundMe or they want to they want to create a support group like there are I know tons of them at this point in my my career, my path through here. Um, and they are doing amazing work, right? Amazing work. When when we started this company, you know, one of my first inclinations was like, oh, we should probably be a nonprofit that kind of feels better. You know, you're like, oh, like we can just be doing the right thing for people. The problem is that the whole system from hospital to health insurance, even if they're nonprofits, they're not nonprofits, right? like they're they're built to make profit for somebody. And if you want to plug into that and get scale, you also have to either make someone money or save someone money. All right? Like it's just a it's just a capitalist function that exists. And so when we looked like I'm a systems engineer at the end of the day. So like I'm like looking at the system where the pressure points are, right? And so when we looked at it, when I looked at it, it's like, okay, well, the people with the money are health insurance or these health plans, these self-funded employer health plans that we really want to target. So we need to go save them a lot of money. All right? And by doing that, we can again scale to help instead of like the 10 families that look like mine, we can help the 10,000 families across the nation that need it. And **[00:24:00]** I don't know, it just uh for us it was just the way that we felt that we could make the biggest impact. Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And there's a huge need. I think you you touched on a good point which is the the other people, you know, how the the GoFundMe all those marketplaces tell us something. They he tells that like to help and support each other and do things really like it's it's we were talking a couple of days ago we had another show where we were talking about like the marketing for companies that are looking for retail investors. you know, how do you have these like a thousand people, 50,000 people invest in a company and the company grows instead of just raising from one VC firm or something like that, but it also tells you like, yeah, so so a lot of those people who are investing, they want to maybe make a buck or two on on the deal, but but also maybe they I mean they like the company. They're like, "Yeah, I'm going to put some money there, right, to make that company grow." And the same thing happens when someone has an issue and they do a GoFundMe or something like that and oh this person has cancer, this person is this diagnosis very expensive and a lot of people chime in because they want to help. And so we've seen that also in the healthcare space uh with with companies that do this sort of Crowdfunding. Yeah. It's a crowd and and so you have something and I've looked into it and it's like you are part of a crowd and then if you have an issue or have to do an emergency visit or something then that gets put into the crowd and then the crowd pays for it and there's there's caps on it and things so you're not suddenly hit with a bill or something but it's way less expensive than the health insurance. I mean, it's not a health insurance, but at the end of the day, it's for people who **[00:26:00]** are or consider themselves to be healthy and that maybe something happens. Well, there's a way to get that paid for by the community, There are many interesting um and a lot of them coming out of Texas actually, which is, you know, I I I told some of my Texan friends because I work I do a lot of business in Texas and I was like, "Hey, you guys are some of the most progressive health c health plan people out there." And they're like, "We're not progressive." you know, the the it was the word itself. But the the truth is Texas right now has this really amazing like can do attitude and deregulation and sense of innovation and like a little bit of pissed off, right, with like the feds in general. And Texas is right now like the crucible for healthc care change, right? You look at everything from like the big DPC networks in South Texas. You look at some of the stuff happening um all across the state really for like stuff coming out of ministries for the for the collective health as you talk about where people are like willing to underwrite their their groups health care costs. Um it's really really fascinating the kind of like spaghetti against the wall that's happening. Um and not just in Texas, across this across the the country, but I don't know. I just feel like I'm seeing so much so much thinking and thought leadership and innovation coming out of Texas. It's really really interesting. The the other part that I want to say is you brought up the crowdfunding like we ran a crowdfunding. We're running a crowdfunding. It's open to the end of April right now. It's on Weefunder and I had opened it up because as a family uh I know that you know lots of rare disease families are basically asked to like give of themselves like hey answer this questionnaire or donate to this GoFundMe or like send us your blood so we can do some research on it. And I was like I want to open up an opportunity for families to participate in the upside with us if they if they want to. Right. So for as little as a hundred bucks you can buy a few shares in the company. Cool. I figured we would sell **[00:28:00]** maybe $50,000 worth of shares, you know what I mean? Like some small amount because people were sort of into it. We've sold over $1.6 million of shares in the company. We've raised over $1.6 million on Wefunder from over 800 investors. And that's that's from families putting in a hundred bucks and families putting in 100,000 bucks. Physicians are into it who are who are saying like, "Hey, I see these patients all the time." families are talking about it about like oh my daughter or my neighbor had this issue right so there's almost 900 investors who are just signaling this is a problem for me too and I was not like I know that that community exists but I was not expecting that level of impact or or backing um and that was a really you know I guess in some ways it's it's um it's upsetting because there are so many people who are frustrated but It's also great to have all of these people supporting what we're doing because they believe that what we are doing is the future of healthcare for this patient That's impressive and it does signal a lot. That's that's really eye opening because a lot of us gets all our stats, all our news from the media, right? uh most most people, especially a certain generation, just listens to whatever the TV says and that's it or the homepage of the internet. Then younger kids might be more in into Tik Tok and and X and Facebook and and whatever. We might get our stuff there. Regardless, depending on your generation, you you might be getting filtered out of a lot that's really going on, like the actual truth of things. Um I really I laugh sometimes because I don't watch TV. We don't watch uh like like news on TV. Yeah. Yeah. And uh sometimes we have to because we're like visiting a relative and they're older and they that's their thing that they do at 5 p.m. or whatever. No. And so so I'm just walking by and and you see these like it's just it's a formula that they have and it's always the same thing **[00:30:00]** like they've got five or six terrible stories and then one sort of positive thing and that's it. But every time they're they're doing um very bad news. Otherwise, I see my news feeds and everything's like innovation and things like things like you're talking about, people showing up, people doing things, uh, new research, new programs, etc. And so I there's there's this disconnect between what some people know and what some people don't know. But I but I'm really liking same as you I think seeing how people are showing up and the fact that these marketplaces these crowdfunding things both for business for health for other things are showing us that there's strength in numbers but in a positive way right like we imagine what we could do if if we did many of the things that we're currently doing in a monolith as a shared resource which is essentially if you go to computers like that's you used to have this sort of machine but then oh we can split it into many machines and then it's like oh but then we can have all those machines working together as a cluster and it be more powerful so it's like it just goes it's a wave but but it happens the same Yeah. I've never I've never heard or thought about the computer analogy before, but that's exactly right. Like like multiparallel processing, right? We can solve much bigger bigger problems. Um yeah, I mean I I certainly think it's funny too because for me, you know, compute has changed everything for us from uh from being able to sequence patients and understand what's going on at a deeper level. Um, but it's true, you know, like you don't want to rely. So, one thing about our process is is when you get for a lot of families historically, you got sick and like you need to you need to find your way to the one doctor who has that like aha moment because they knew what was going on with you. **[00:32:00]** And for us, we're like, hey, well, we can use AI to go look at all of the information available and we can bring that aha moment to your doctor, right? And so that's really how I see us is like AI in the pocket of the doctor. We're not here to replace doctors, you know, it's all about giving them the best information so that they don't have to go out and read 16 arcane journals that, you know, are not on their docket or they don't have the time to do or they're too tired because they did a surgery that day. Like we're saying, hey, we can go do that and we get a clinician to have some oversight to make sure that the information that you're getting back is valid, that human in the loop, right? And you know that's that's been the most effective part is we're just we're just using technology to make things faster and more efficient and and I think that anybody who's worried about like AI replacing everyone that feels a little uh chicken little like the sky is falling to me. I think that AI is here the same way the internet the same way that the typewriter made things more efficient. It just makes us more efficient and and better at being able to treat the individual in front of us and that's all we want to do. I agree. And talking about parallelism, what you're doing is fantastic because that's one of the best ways you can use these tools in the sense that I'm a patient and I need a diagnosis and then maybe I'm in a small town and there's no one here that can really help me. But then I go into the system, I get the genome diagnosis, sequencing, etc. Sorry if I'm butchering everything, but the thing goes into the system and then you can essentially extract everything that's needed and then send it out to, I don't know, a pool of 800 or 2,000 physicians who might be experts in a certain thing or another. And then they can see the bits of pieces that they need or they see the whole picture. And now maybe a doctor in Kansas **[00:34:00]** or a doctor in Texas or a doctor in Maine is like, "Oh yeah, I know what this is. I just saw it last week." And then they bring it back and the person in the rural town can now get because maybe it's not even a complicated or expensive procedure. It's just that nobody knows because they've never seen it, but someone in another part can. Right. That's right. You got it 100%. And sorry if I changed the wording. No, no, no. They don't know everything any about the industry. But I love that. I think that's that's what we should do. We should be using technology in this way where we're using there's there's overused professionals like you were saying at the beginning like uh and there there's there might be some people that just just can't get to because they're just the experts in the field, but then there's a 100,000 other underused experts because there's no work for them. in in that specific thing. But well, even even for those overused experts, like all of them have some bandwidth to be able to do secondary opinions or referrals, right? And so like our doc, our internal doc, he's one of the world's leading pediatric neurologists for epilepsy and And I mean, he doesn't he's not like in a he's he's still licensed for practice. He's not in a in a hospital system right now, but like that's who we can provide access to, right? Because now through us, instead of seeing 10 patients a day, right, he can see a thousand patients in a month, right? I'm being it's like uh I'm being I'm exaggerating a bit, but like he can help all of these families. we can bring him all of the edge cases so that that's just the people that he is focusing on because those are the best people that he can he can look at instead of waiting for those edge cases to work their way through the system to get to him and and that that's the force multiplier, right? And and again to your point like that's where technology becomes the unlock and enabler, not the **[00:36:00]** I like I like that. I like the way you put it, Joshua. This has been super interesting. I am very interested in learning more about Sunstone Health as well and I'm sure many of our listeners are also. Where can they find more information about what you're doing? I know you have a podcast as well. What's the name of the podcast? Sunstone Healthpodcast. That was easy. Yeah. And uh you know sunstone.com. So just sunstonehealth.com. Um and if anybody who's listening, you know, our our weunder is up through the end of April. So if people do want to get involved and and participate with us on the on the equity, they can buy shares in the company. Just go to health and you can find us right there. Excellent. Thanks again, Joshua. And for everyone who's listening, if you haven't liked and subscribed, make sure to do that so that you learn when we release new episodes. Thank you, Joshua. It's been a pleasure. Thanks.