Lean Six Sigma and AI for Root Cause Problem Solving

**[00:00:00]** Hello everyone, welcome to the Web Talk Show. My name is Armando Perez-Carreno and with us today is Vishwadeep Khatri from Benchmark Six Sigma now known as Benchmark X360. Welcome Vishwadeep. How are you? Thanks Armando. Thank you for having me here. Yeah, I'm doing fine. Hope you are doing well too. I am. Thank you very much. And I know we have quite a time zone difference right now. So also that's I really appreciate you coming on at this time of evening uh to be on the show. I want people to know about what you do at Benchmark X360 Benchmark Six Sigma because I've learned through it uh through the years with talking with you and and working together in some projects what it is. But I've I've had being an outsider to that industry many questions about what is six sigma and what are all these certifications that people are taking and why. So I want really want to get into it. But before we get into the nitty-gritty, can you tell us a little bit about your history? How you got into this space and and what made you want to create this platform? Yeah, sure. It's an interesting story. So I, you know, after my engineering MBA, I was doing a corporate job as most people do. But then I realized that I would like to conduct training, workshops, consulting. So I found an organization called Quality Management International where I started doing consulting work. But then in some time I felt that consultants are not respected so much. This was the domain of quality consulting you know and ISO 9000 consulting. So I realized that consultants do not have that much respect and it is the auditors who are respected more. **[00:02:00]** So I thought okay why not become an auditor a third party auditor. So I went through a lead auditor course which was quite a respected certification at that time and became an auditor. I joined a company called benchmark certification which was an Australian company and became the country manager for that company in India. So started doing lot of third party audits ISO 9000 and then moved into ISO 14,0001 and then food safety and several others. So in this process as I was doing audits I came across so many industries manufacturing of various kinds automotive manufacturing specialty uh pharmaceuticals FMCG various kinds and then all kind of service sector organizations software development companies BPOS hospitals healthcare uh educational institutes and so on. So I realized that during auditing you can ask anything to anyone and they have to answer those questions. So you learn a lot. So huge amount of learning really happened and I realized that one can learn really fast if one is an auditor. But after some time after about 400 plus third party audits I started feeling bored because I was not allowed to guide or coach anyone. I am just supposed to say this is okay, this is not okay because the auditor's job is to just check conformance or non-conformance. So then I realized this is something I I should be able to contribute because now that I have learned so much, I should be able to coach and train people. So then I started thinking how do I get into this domain? I realized that leadership or the senior most management of a company are keen to discuss **[00:04:00]** with the consultant if he's talking money if he's talking profitability and then I realized six sigma is the field which actually talks about profits and projects are done for for increase of profit for return on investment. So it talks the money language right from the start and that is how you can connect with the leadership. So then I went through six sigma training from Motorola University. At that time Motorola University used to conduct these programs in different parts of the world and after learning six sigma I was completely sold and then I started re researching learning coaching and started benchmark six sigma. So then from there onwards you know it has been lean six sigma training green belt black belt master black belt a long journey but that exactly that's how it started. Wow, that is super interesting because we don't hear a lot from the auditor side. We sometimes fear the auditor coming, right? Or like, oh, do we have everything in order? They're coming to check, right? And uh but it's very interesting to hear your perspective from the other side of yes they're coming to check but then they're also learning from the people and and the the way you gathered all this knowledge but then also decided hey I want to be able to contribute. I think that's great because you now had both sides and wanted a way to give back to the people in these organizations to help the organizations actually grow instead of just be graded if if we want to call it uh a term. did you decide that you were going to do I know you talked about lean six sigma and you went through that and and said okay this is great because it talks the language of **[00:06:00]** profitability and that's a good way to which which I think it's it's an a great way to choose um a platform but what was the first step when you said okay I'm going to start doing these trainings or workshops. How did you get into it? Did was it existing clients, people that you knew? Like what made you make the leap and do that first one and how did it feel that first workshop that you gave now as this as this new entity? Yeah, interesting question. So of course after all these audits I realized that you know there are so many things that one company can learn from another and there are so many inputs I'm getting from different sectors so I can contribute a lot. So once I knew that I had to of course announce the program develop the program and at that time I created our own website for the first time. I created myself and uh that website was launched and we started some Google advertising and started getting some leads. Six sigma was actually you know quite an impressive term at that time. So lot of people really wanted to learn about it especially senior people. So I would say we really started at the right time when it was really demanded and then of course one thing led to another. Initially it was called management workshops or six sigma workshops. It was not green belt, black belt etc. But then we moved into the exact structure which is accepted all over the world and continued doing that. So it see basically we have two uh verticals as you may call it the corporate vertical where we do programs for companies and the open or **[00:08:00]** public programs which is open enrollment programs. So we started with open enrollment programs and that is where we started networking talking to so many people they learned about it they enjoyed it they wanted to apply it and then people started coming back to us why don't you coach our company or our people to move forward so you know these two domains the corporate business and the public business they actually feed each other interestingly and it just continued like that is I'm glad you said that because the reason I asked is sometimes people especially in this day and age have a lifetime of expertise. They've been at a corporation, they've been at different corporations, it's been at different businesses, now they're experts at something and it's a good time for them at this point in their career to maybe start training, giving workshops, coaching, things like that. And that first step is difficult because how how do I start? And what you're saying now makes a lot of sense because you can start with a depending on how you want to do it. But if you want to start with a lower barrier to entry maybe with individuals, help them grow. They see the benefit and then they start making noise in the company and the company's like, "Wow, okay, this makes sense. Can you can you train our team?" It's a good way for one to feed into the other. Or the other way around, like you don't have to just focus on one regardless of what is said. We we always hear you have to focus on on one one thing and one market and it's very good you're very important to focus on a niche but this particular scenario both of them can feed each other which is which is a very natural thing and and we don't always think about it that way. Yeah. Interestingly you know uh during the covid times the corporate business just disappeared for some time but then the public programs flourished because people were sitting **[00:10:00]** at home not knowing what to do. So they thought let us improve our competence. So this you know has really worked for us all the time because even if one section goes down a little bit the other one moves up based on the cycles in the industry. M yes that makes a lot of sense and for context for for those listening uh benchmark and and visuals team I mean I see your client list here goes from EY Google Tata Motors Coca-Cola Accenture like the names are are very impressive plus the thousands of people that you've trained in in the in the individual space right so we are talking about something that will transcend what you maybe your original idea of let me just do some workshop maybe help you've actually helped thousands and thousands of people either by helping their the whole corporation or or individuals directly which which is amazing and and I think more people should be doing things like this where they they're already experts at something and they have their career and regardless of what they're doing now. If they feel like they want something maybe more rewarding or maybe they're ready to stop the typical schedule and do something different, whatever. You don't have to just start in a new industry. you can you can really flourish in the same space that you are by transmitting what you've already amassed in knowledge. What do you think? Yeah, I think you know uh just to give you an interesting perspective many companies when they hire a consultant they are always looking for have you worked in the same domain earlier what are your clients in the same space right **[00:12:00]** interestingly six sigma doesn't always work like that it's good to have people who come from a different space they give you a different perspective you learn from them about many other things which you have never thought of so this mindset I have seen this mindset in many companies for example Google never asked us uh have you done anything for company like Google in fact there is no other company like Google and interestingly Boeing was our first aircraft company client and uh many leading companies were the first and they are actually global leaders by themselves which also shows that global leaders are more open to learning from people who have exper expertise from other domains and I would think that's a nice way of thinking right I mean in India just to give you an example pharmaceutical industry has suffered for decades because they never allowed people from other domains to enter their company and they had a very you know you can say homogeneous kind of mindset not exploring new things which they could learn from other sectors but in recent times as they opened up they have got huge benefits because when they hired people from automotive sector they learned something extraordinary and they changed their profitability levels like anything so uh interesting I think uh companies should be open generally speaking instead of you know because we talking about problem solving we're talking about systematic thinking we are talking about innovation these are not uh areas which are limited to your domain and it's good good to have diverse viewpoints rather than you know just the same kind of terminology going on all the time. I like that. It's like with software, right? **[00:14:00]** My my expertise originally is software. And so you are solving problems like you said. You are creating things, you're making things more efficient, you're automating, etc. But it's not always in the same industry. You might do something here and and then go into another industry and then go into a completely other industry. And by having that diversity, it gives you more ideas of, oh, we did this in pharmaceutical, now we can do this in automotive, right? Like there's things that map that maybe someone in an industry never thought about because they're just in their lane like you were saying. So that that's an excellent point. Yeah, exactly. And I find that to be very refreshing when I speak to people from diverse backgrounds. I get a lot to learn. Of course, you know, one needs to have the capability to customize and relate finally back to your sector instead of just talking about another domain. But then this diverse background definitely helps. For those listening that have no idea what is Lin Six Sigma, can you explain to us like we're 11 years old. What is it and why is it so important for Yeah, sure. So, you see six sigma the strength of this approach lies in few concepts. Let me talk about them one by one. One is structured problem solving. So generally people have a tendency to jump to a solution without really finding the root cause without really checking whether our data is reliable without really confirming what the exact problem is. So if you don't follow a systematic approach you are likely to just **[00:16:00]** scratch the surface or address the symptoms but not attack the root cause. Right? So for that you know six sigma has a very nice sequence of define measure analyze improve control. So there's a systematic sequence if you follow it you are very confident that you are reaching the root cause addressing something systematically and finally it shows because the solution is sustained otherwise if you're not using six sigma the sustainability is always a challenge. people solve problems but the issue comes back again after some time. So that's one big strength. The other aspect about six sigma is that it is a datadriven approach. So without reliable data and without you know testing your hypothesis in a scientific way you can't really be confident. Another aspect is that six sigma requires sponsorship from the leadership. So projects have to be approved by senior management and they will pick up their pain points. They will pick the right people for those projects. They will ensure that the right resources are made available which means having the right problem defined by the key people in the company. you understand the strategic direction of the organization. Getting those resources allocated and having their back or having their support for removing any barriers that come along the way is a great start for problem solving anyway, right? And then as you go along, these methods which we cover in six sigma were not created by one company. You know this is wisdom basically management wisdom compiled over centuries. For example, normal distribution curve really was initiated in 1800s but we use it in six sigma. Right? So these methods are uh tried and tested **[00:18:00]** mechanisms. FMEA was actually initiated in US military. Design of experiments was started in agriculture long ago. But Motorola as a company really put these things together and created this systematic sequence called six sigma and it worked wonderfully for them and then General Electric took it over applied to services very well and then other companies started using it in different ways. Of course it is an evolving methodology also. It's not exactly what it used to be. So it has really evolved. For example, the way Toyota uses lean is different from how Amazon uses lean and is different from you know how some of the latest companies use lean. So Tesla for example uses lean very differently. The foundational principles are same but how you apply them with changing times with evolving technology with what is possible keeps getting modified. But the powerful thing is that foundational principles are still the same and we can benefit from that. So companies really like the Linix Sigma approach for various reasons. The other good thing about this is that it's not an external certification program. See external certificates are sometimes taken for publicity or for reputation building. But this is something which will survive only if you use it well or if you benefit from it. So companies which drive lean six sigma from the top have to do lot of serious work at leadership level also and if they have that passion and commitment they can drive huge benefits for the company. So it's good that it continues only if company is benefiting from it and it's not an external stamp really for the **[00:20:00]** Individuals do get certified, projects get certified but companies do not which I think is a good thing. yeah. And in addition you know uh this is also a leadership development program. So someone who does yellow belt today might do green belt after a few months may do black belt later and master black belt. In some companies they say that if you are not a master black belt you can't cannot be considered for vice president. Wow. So which means unless you have solved problems of greater complexity involving cross functional teams and generated good business benefits you are not fit for a leadership position which is an interesting and meaningful way of looking at it. So these are some of the powerful concepts which have made lin six sigma so popular and it actually survives uh over a long time and has been evolving. In fact, it has become even more relevant today in the AI artificial intelligenceled world and uh really the foundational concepts are very powerful. Wow. That is a lot to unpack because the fact that it's not just one of those certifications that you stamp on like you were saying because I see a lot of those people just get them because well I need it and people are looking for let me just just get it then you pass a quiz and that's it. Right. But this seems to be more involved in the whole organization and the people within it. And I'm very interested in that point where you talked about some organizations having it as a requirement which means someone can be there for a long time in a company but if they haven't actually been in a problem-solving role with those types of and results then now they're not really discriminating. Hey, I **[00:22:00]** don't want this person as VP. It's like, does this person actually have what it takes to take the company further if they come into that role? Yeah, exactly. And that's that's something I think very meaningful. And General Electric actually did it very well when they started with it. Jack Welch was famous for his saying. He used to say, "I do not want MBAs in my company because I don't know what MBAs will do, but I want black belts because I know exactly what they will do. They will actually bring millions of benefit year after year after year." And I like the fact that it has a structure. It's like when you're a child and they teach you the scientific method and how you have to you do your hypothesis, right? And then there's all these steps to so that you don't just jump to a conclusion. You have to actually prove it and and think through what it will take to get to that conclusion so that you can say whether it worked or it didn't work because we see it in in business every single day where people you get an email this is not working. Especially again in our space uh there's a lot of this isn't work like okay okay hold on what isn't working what what did you try? What did you expect? What? And then what what errors did you get? What did you see? Because if not, it's too ambiguous. And while someone could jump to a conclusion and yes, okay, I know I fix it. Which funnily enough, the AI does that a lot, then you have to be like, no, no, no, stop. Hold on. Take your time. go through it and and reach a sustainable I like that word solution because a patch for sure can fix it. But if it's just a patch and you didn't really understand I liked your analogy of just treating the symptoms you're not really fixing the root cause and more importantly you **[00:24:00]** could create a bigger problem downstream if you didn't really understand the source. Yeah. True. True. I really wanted to ask you something. The way you address problems and I've been noticing that you are very keen to reach the root cause and you keep exploring. You don't give up and sometimes I feel okay uh let's get it done somehow but then you have this tendency no I have to find out what exactly is behind it why it happened. you are really a six sigma person or a six sigma thinker I would say even if you have not done six sigma training doesn't matter right so that is the exact thought process right understanding the root cause going deeper and fixing it in a manner which is permanent right interestingly there is a concept of seven wastes in rather eight wastes in lean you know lean manufacturing they say there are a lot of wastes or nonvalue adding activities in business which should be eliminated. Right? Interestingly, uh waiting is a waste, overprocessing is a waste, excessive motion and transportation is a waste, inventory, if you have extra inventory, it is a waste. And there are, you know, eight waste like that. Interestingly from that concept I realized that AI also has eight wastes and if we don't eliminate them we are going to become slaves rather than masters of AI. So it's an area where waste elimination becomes very important. Of course, it comes in a very different package and we use it in our new program. But yeah, I think you know there are so many powerful concepts in lean and six sigma that once someone goes deeper and learns it well, they just keep talking and using that mindset all their life. **[00:26:00]** I would tend to agree. You know, you you mentioned my thought process whenever we've worked together. I I think I suspect I'm not sure but my my suspicion is obviously at some point in time I've always jumped to conclusions and things like that and and saw the negative effects of it right so that's one the learn the self-learning right but another thing is something that really stayed with me was when I was in university doing my computer science I I did Carnegie Melon's personal software process certification and within that it was very interesting because there was a very specific process step by step where you wouldn't even write a line of code before you did a bunch of other things. So you would need to count the time spent and uh the lines of code but you had to al also plan ahead. So basically you had to plan the whole thing before you actually wrote it. So that then when you wrote it, speaking of smaller functions of course, so when you wrote it, you could actually test whether your conclusion was sound or not because otherwise you just build it and then oh it doesn't work. Oh, it doesn't work. Oh, it doesn't and you're just like trying to fix a thing where where the issue might have been a variable somewhere else, right? And so that stayed with me because as we were learning, I remember being very excited when you did the process and you got the good results and you could track that and see how many um benefits you were getting based on on those scenarios. So I think that stayed with me as just as a as a general rule for for thinking because if you apply it for everything then it helps you do things better. Obviously, there's times where that could become overhead and it's not necessary. But if you have it for your main processes or your critical processes, it's important because especially if it's something that's going to be there for **[00:28:00]** the long run, you want it to survive. If it's a thing that you're going to use that day, then maybe you could do it quicker. But but if it's something like a lasting platform that many people will use that might affect their future, that might affect business, etc., then it's worth it to step back and and do things a little more slowly which is something the AI also needs to learn. Yeah, exactly. I I really wanted to ask you, you know, I really want to ask you about this. When you get some coding done by AI or some something developed by AI what I have been noticing is that when you find an issue later, there's a tendency that the tool will give you some patch. It'll say you apply this and it'll be solved. And I had to so many times I had to tell AI or charge GPT that please find the root cause. Let us fix it at the source. I don't like this patching business. I don't know uh what is your experience? Have you been noticing that? Yes. Yes. And you'll see something very interesting happen and people are going to hear about this more and more but anyone can build an application today right they can talk to Gemini chat GPT gro claude tool of choice and it will build an application for you website application mobile app whatever you want the barrier is gone however you will 98% of the time very likely that software engineers using these tools will get a very different output from a person that has never created software before. And it's not that the software engineer is a better manager or user. It's just that they've already had a bunch of issues along the way that they've faced and their experience has told them what to look out for. And **[00:30:00]** so I can go into a problem and whether you studied computer engineer or you just have built software it doesn't really matter. It's it's a process of I know what can go wrong and so I might prepare beforehand and tell the tool this is how I like to do things. Please make sure you A B CDE E FG and and giving AI checklists is very good because it can it can track those. some advice here is if your tracking is ephemereral, like if your tracking is just there in the conversation, be sure it'll be lost in in a little while. If it's just in the memory now that they have memory, it can also get lost. So, I like recommending to people to use an external tracking tool, either files or if you use GitHub, you can create GitHub issues and just have it just tell it the process. Whenever I tell you something, create a GitHub issue for it. write everything down, etc. If you want to have tasks, create a milestone for it, create those. So that way it has a third-party way that it cannot pollute itself and go in and look at them and continue even though your context gets lost or even though the conversation went too long, etc. So if you keep that plus your best practices or standard operating procedures, it'll do a much much better job. So yes, what you're what you're saying is is completely accurate. What happens I think is they haven't they whoever trained the models these frontier labs or whoever they first of all train them on human content. So as we've been talking humans take shortcuts you want to do the patch etc. So that's in in its nature first first thing right and then but if you take away that the same problems that plagued software engineers through the years are now plaguing AI because it doesn't have all the best practices in it because only few people use those best practices. So, even people like Uncle Bob, I **[00:32:00]** think that's what the people call him, uh, who's an expert in like clean code, he wrote the book on clear code. He's talking about how he now just uses AI and agents and it's fine. But he gives them all the parameters that he's talked about in his books and now he trusts them completely because he knows that they will go through and now that we have agents, they will go through make sure the code is clean, check and do a bunch of tests. Even that means thousands of tests doesn't matter because they're very fast. But you are able to trust because it can do those tests and and make make sure you get a good result. But the second thing that I think is very important is that when you get into telling it to to build things, it still thinks in human time. So it will try to balance in my Oh, what you're asking for in its mind has this scope. it'll take 14 to 20 days to build something like because it's planning in human days where really it's going to take it 3 minutes right but so then it I imagine what's happening it's balancing that versus your immediate need and it's like no no yeah let's tackle that later cuz it's very hard and let's just do this version so I I like to tell it to like you're saying just make sure you have your standard op operating procedures which one of them might do not think in human time. Everything you do will only take a few seconds to a few minutes. And so in that scenario, then it could be like, "Oh, okay. In that case, I'm sure I can finish that before your next call in a few hours, right?" Because it just doesn't know. Um because remember, they don't really think it's just a predictor of of words. It's a very fancy predictor of of next tokens. So that's my my thought. I don't know if it answers **[00:34:00]** your question. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I keep learning every time I talk to you. So yes you know uh using AI is something everyone is doing now. You know sometime I mean maybe 2 3 years ago people were saying if you're not using AI you are losing out. But today everyone is using AI but the question now is who is directing AI right? And directing AI is a competence that has to be built and that will separate the extraordinary from the average in whatever you do not just the software development in whatever you do directing AI is the true competence for the future. So yes, I'm I'm I'm also glad you said that because all this quality items, so I I'm not from the corporate world. And so there's a lot of terminology that is spoken and many people are are like me. They maybe they're always been in small businesses, medium, but not not necessarily in the corporate enterprise space. And so a lot of this terminology might be very foreign to to many people and like what is that six sigma? What is that ISO? What is that? all those certifications and things but I think six sigma or lean is is very good because it's a thought process that can be applied to many things like you're saying even to managing AI like if you have processes then that will help your people follow those processes whether they're doing things or AI is doing things or or regardless of what what the actual action is. Is that is that Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Yes, you're right. Is it lean something that someone can just take if they want? Like, oh, I want to learn more about being more efficient in my processes or or make better profits for my company, even if it's a twoerson company or a 10 person company. Is that something that people could just get into, or is it more focused on on no, you have to have to be in a in a big corporation **[00:36:00]** for it to actually make sense for you as an individual or a business owner to do? Excellent question. So you see the the standard or the conventional lean six sigma programs generally work for large companies pretty well because they assume a large company background and that is how they were designed or developed. Right? Mhm. But my belief is that even if it is a large company, the program always has to be customized. Customized not just because your technology is different or your product is different, but also because your process maturity is different, your people competence is different, the background of people is different and you have built a culture which is different from others. Right? So it's very important to customize the program even for a large company. Now talking about small company or let us say two person company it has to be customized even more. So basically if someone is really coaching or guiding a small company they will have to really understand their business pick up the pain points first. So we always like to talk to the client understand what are your main pinpoints where are you stuck where is what will bring you high profitability which problems if solved will take you far ahead etc. Once we know that we can customize the program and that also requires you know building some cases along with them. So if we do that pre-work then the program would be really beneficial. Sometimes we even ask them for some data points you know some metrics that they use and the the the exact numbers which if they're willing to share for example **[00:38:00]** some percentages and then modify the program include those case studies remove the tools that don't make sense add some additional concepts that make sense so you know over the years my thinking has changed to quite an extent as far as master black's level is concerned and only using lean and six sigma is not One also needs to learn theory of constraints. One needs to learn about creativity using methods like trees which is t r i z uh a Russian creativity approach which can which claims that it can convert anyone to an inventor and a very powerful approach. So there are you know Monte Carlo simulations which you can apply to risk management and uh simulating results of your business given the the variables in hand. So there are additional competencies outside lin six sigma that one has to learn if he reaches master black belt level and that is why we created a master black belt program which is called business excellence master black belt not the lean six sigma master black belt by adding all those additional competencies which now includes foundations of AI readiness also by the So yeah. Wow. That and I've seen those on the site and I' I now it makes a lot of these the the combination makes more sense now that I now that I hear it spoken this way. I I've seen a lot on your website that you you have calculations, you have calculators, you have the forum where people ask questions, etc. Right. And there's a lot of movement. people are very interested in these questions in these in these uh parameters and and I find it very interesting that it's again like you were saying it's not just a **[00:40:00]** tool or a process but you actually I don't know at what level but you actually have to go through cases and and I don't know if they're hypothetical or really part of the company or both but they as I understand it you have to go through and and really crunch the numbers and do the the process to get an output instead of just keeping it as a theory but actually make something get a result out of it so that you can prove that you did learn. Is that how it Yeah, it's that's a great point also and a very good direction. So basically lean six sigma was highly preferred by me and also by many companies because it is real. Real in the sense it applies it has to generate results. you have to bring business benefits. So in many companies they don't certify an individual unless he has completed a project. You have to apply it. You have to bring the results out. Right? And that's the most beautiful thing about this you know domain. It's not a theory which you learn and you know get certified in and probably forget in some time. It's something which you have to apply and deliver results and only then you get the most valuable certification which is project based project based So interestingly in our AI program also now the latest one we have introduced that you have you need to learn but you also have to apply it at your work. You have to showcase how you are applying it. You have to defend your use of AI and the correct use of AI and you should be able to not only apply it but you should also show a method to reuse it. Someone else should be able to reuse it which means you have to convert it into a skill or a tool so that it becomes reusable and only **[00:42:00]** then we would say your learning is complete. You are not only applying it you are also able to make it reusable so that you can move to something new. I think that's how the world has to move now because you see knowledge is readily It's the judgment that is crucial and people have to build those judgment skills when to use what and how to use it. And this is something where AI can misguide you unless you are careful. So Yes, that is that is so true. I I agree. And as more people use AI and the workforce just expands dramatically with it, we have to keep all these things in mind so that so that people can be efficient but at the same time not be driven by the AI like you said earlier and actually be the ones using it as as a tool that that it is. Visual I am really happy that we had a chance to have the show today. I think we should have a another show another time and get deeper into some of these calculations and things because it's very exciting, very interesting and I think more people should learn about it. So, if you're up for it, we can do another show where we do a deeper dive into um some some maybe some even examples of of how all this stuff works. Uh because we're running out of time unfortunately, but it has been a blast. What would you recommend to people if they're thinking of getting into the space or maybe improving their efficiency etc? what would be a good next step or or suggestion for our Yeah, I think problem solving will continue to be a space that people should get into because this is one domain which AI will not take away. So people are looking for safe jobs these days and getting into problem solving is definitely safe. Uh AI will bring up new kinds of problems of course but then you can learn how to solve them. **[00:44:00]** And the second most important aspect is about directing AI which I was talking about. I'm really passionate about it. I know this is the domain which is going to grow. So one should really learn how to direct AI, how to use it safely so that you can get extraordinary results with confidence and you can defend your decisions and you can continue to make it reusable. So I would say one needs to really you know learn a lot about directing AI because that's the thing for the future. Amazing Vishu. Thank you so much. Where can people find more information about Yeah. So benchmarkx360.com that's our new website. And of course to let everyone know Armando actually helped us build this beautiful website and we are still taking a lot of inputs from him. So thank you Armando for this. Oh it's a pleasure. It's a it's an amazing thing that you and your team are doing and I've seen the thousands of reviews that people put on there which means you're doing a good job. So I'm very happy to have been a part of that project as well. Thanks so much for coming on the show Vishwadeep. Thank you everyone for listening and if you haven't liked and subscribed, make sure you do so so that you're aware whenever we release new episodes like this one with Vishwadeep uh that we have today. Thanks Vadib and we'll see everyone in the next one.