The Hidden Network That Keeps America's Supply Chain Running

**[00:00:00]** Hello everyone. My name is Armando Perez-Carreno and welcome to the Web Talk Show. Today with me is Dean Vicha. He's president at NationaLease. How are you Dean? Good Armando. How you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. I'm really excited about this conversation because I learned about national relatively recently and got to experience one of your events and there's so much that happens behind the scenes in this space that regular folks like myself, we have no idea that all this is happening and it's like the backbone of everything we we do and eat and and experience. So, um I want to talk a little bit about what uh like what what is it that you do, of course, but first, can you tell us a little bit about how you got started in this industry and how you got to where you are right now? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's serendipitous or if it was, you know, uh if it was already planned out, but um yeah, I I kind of fell into it. I I guess right I you know if I really go back to the beginning I started off when I was in school as a as a meat truck driver in Chicago and uh delivering meat from the market to uh to different restaurants and uh and places for a small company called the Lorocco Meat Company. And uh when I got out of school um I my first job was with a company called Rollins Truck Runner Leasing and and I was working a rental desk in Cicero, Illinois. um checking in and out trucks with companies that came to to rent or or uh or lease them there and uh you know the plan was just to get some work experience and then go into uh uh professional sports and and start working there in some manner right somebody had told me a long time before that that I wasn't good enough to play so I I then thought maybe I' I'd be a front office guru uh but uh uh but I never left I never you know I just uh you know a promotion here and there and um 2006 found my way to NationaLease. **[00:02:00]** Um I I'd come from Rollins had sold in 2001. I was a national sales rep at that time uh to Penske a big competitor. Um Ryder, another competitor, recruited me at that time and I I did national accounts there for 5 years. became a NationaLease in 2006 and um a couple roles here and became president in 2012 and uh um you know I've been here now 20 years this year. Wow. Well, congratulations on the milestone. 20 years a ton especially these days people don't don't last in in companies. It's not it's not that sort of a career job that that people are seeing. So that's amazing. What made you stay? Yeah. Yeah. It's a special place is what I was going to say. Um, uh, I'm I'm really blessed. I have a team actually Joe Puff was our our senior VP of maintenance who you met, uh, at that meeting you attended and that was his last meeting, but he had been with us over 10 years in that role. Uh, my whole senior executive team has been with me, you know, for, you know, for over a decade. And and that's um, uh, that's a blessing, right? They're they're great at what they do. Um, you know, I I came to National East really to escape another culture. Um, and uh and and uh I didn't know if National East was really the right place. I remember telling my wife, um, we'll we'll give it a try for a year, but um uh if not, we'll, you know, we'll have some time to go figure something out. I just know that where I'm at today is not where I want to be. Um, and what I found was a a family culture. A lot of companies talk about a family culture, right? But National Lee supports familyrun businesses. That's who we are and and that's uh who we act and I think that's what I I fell in love with. I I really learned a a passion for supporting familyrun businesses competing against the big box stores, right? I always kind of compare us, you **[00:04:00]** know, you'd mentioned at the in the introduction um not a lot of people might not know who we are, right? But you see us every day um because we're delivering the newspapers in our trucks to your house. We're delivering food uh to your restaurant or to your grocery store. We're delivering steel and lumber and uh and things of that nature. We're delivering uh you know to Walgreens or or or places like that, right? But the um I always say we're kind of the Ace Hardware, the truck run on leasing business. um made up of familyrun businesses uh that that combined their resources together under the national flag to do things that they couldn't do as well on their own or couldn't do at all on their own and and allow them to compete with the riders and the Penskies of the world and and those are our Lowe's and Home Depot, right? That Ace Hardware compares to. So when I use that analogy, that one seems to stick. and our the families that make up National East, you know, they they live in their communities. They're invested in their communities and and I don't know uh I don't think you can provide a higher level of service. And when you put your family name on the side of a truck um and and take it down the road and so supporting that type of business, you know, to our customers and and to to the members that make up national um is a passion that I've developed over my time here. So, um, everything happened by accident, Armando, but I I, you know, somebody put me in the right place. That's amazing. And the fact that you not only work with familyun businesses, but that it it seems to be ingrained in in what you like doing. Yeah. That's incredible because these familyrun businesses, I mean, my my old man has had a business for over 20 what, 25 years. and and and before that he had other businesses and it's that you see the ups and downs and and it's a whole thing and taking care of your employees. It's not as easy as people think **[00:06:00]** sometimes. And yeah, being able to support entrepreneurs and and business owners, especially family run businesses is for me, I think it's something very rewarding, but it's at the scale that that you're doing it. It's impressive. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm I you know, I'm a steward of of of National East, right? It's uh it's a company that's been here long before me and it'll be here long after uh uh we're back. So, um uh you know, I get to um I I get to kind of watch over it and and and provide the support, you know, during the time that I'm uh uh during the time that I'm here. But um yeah, I mean, I'm a huge uh you know, I've learned this by my experiences. Um you know, I don't know if I could have defined it for you 10, 15 years ago. Uh, but I'm a huge, you know, I'm a huge culture person and I think culture is really what drives a successful company, right? There's all the other things you have to do and that blocking and tackling and providing a service or maybe it's a technology that you've developed or things of that nature, but the at the end of the day, um, I really believe to have a sustainable organization that people are proud to work with that that grows and and then allows people to do the achieve the goals that they have at home, right? because at the end of the day that's what most of us if not all of us are working for. Um uh that culture really matters and so um so we you know we um it really drives everything that we do at NationaLease and uh and I've seen a lot of places that that have a lot of great taglines and they put a lot of stuff up in the in the cafeteria and and on the wall and they start off their meetings with some statement of who they are. But uh I always say you are who your people say you are when they go to the bar on Friday night with the other people and you're not around, right? Or or when they're walk when they're around the water cooler. And that's what your culture is. You don't get to define what your culture is. Um it's how you behave **[00:08:00]** and what people see, right? And uh and so we we we certainly pay a lot of attention to to that. And uh um and and I think uh I I think we really, you know, for the most part, I think we do a really good job of it because it it literally is who we are, right? Yeah. The the culture part I was just listening to someone yesterday talking about how they built this this multi-million dollar business, but that the guy was explaining it was all the culture. Like he said, everyone it was a software company. He was like all my other competitors, they're they're just pitching software. I learned early on that I had to build a culture and now people go to their events and everything and like they've got the the brand tattooed on their but like they feel part of it. I don't have any tattoos for but I think some people would tell you that I wear it right and and I do uh because I'm blessed. I've been at other places that I didn't feel it um and and and I and I have here. So, uh, uh, I feel blessed to to be here. And I think the the the the amount of time that the people who work at NationaLease have spent here. Um, uh, the tenure is incredible. Um, and it's, you know, people have choices, right? And, uh, and where you wake up every morning and go to work and, and this is where you're going to spend most of your life. Um, you know, it better be a place that you believe in and that you that you that you enjoy being a part of. And, uh, um, and that's that's the energy I think that that that that pushes NationaLease. I mean that that is right like you said, right? That's our competitive advantage. It's it's it's literally the people that make up the network. Yeah. I I saw it. You could feel it at the event. Uh the the people that were there, I didn't know what to expect. Yeah. And when I got there and saw them all interacting, especially when you had that that sort uh it wasn't the Q&A was it was like they could suggest Yeah. they could suggest things and they all wrote in the paper and they were all **[00:10:00]** talking about it and it it was very interesting to see them all participating um for the organization for for for everyone else not just for themselves and sharing what worked for them and and that was really really interesting. Yeah, it you know those meetings are a huge part of the of the culture, right? That's when people get together and and and uh you know the culture of NationaLease national really started uh with 17 families in 1944 who own truck run leasing companies and they had a problem and the problem was how do I take care of my customer's truck when he's away from home as well as I do here right and uh and that was when the network was kind of uh built and it was familyrun businesses taking care of other familyrun businesses the national least member in Chicago, their truck breaks down in Miami, another member in Miami drops what they're doing and they take care of that truck like it's their own and get that customer out on the road and and support them while they're making their deliveries, right? And and that really that's the that culture has never changed. Um that's the most important thing that we do. But boy, then you know a lot of other things came together with it, right? Qu Well, why don't we buy tires together? uh why don't we buy parts together so we can buy it more competitively and keep our customers cost down. Uh and that we can compete as small businesses with the big box stores that we're competing with every day. Um and that rolled into a lot of other things and meetings is a big part of that because that's when they develop the relationship, right? Um you know there's nobody else you really want to take care of more than your friend, right? And and when you come to these meetings, they become friends and they share best practices like you saw. uh and they develop a a a trust and a and a um and a support, you know, for each other. And they don't want to let each other down because, you know, when that call comes in in December, they know that they're going to come to that meeting in May. And and you know what, and Armando's going to be there and and if I let Armando down, um maybe it's not **[00:12:00]** going to be as comfortable of a conversation as I want, but boy, I'd love it if Armando came up to me and said, "Hey, let me buy you a beer. You took care of my customer and you took care of me, you know, and and we really appreciated that." And that's that's um that's what that's all about. And for us uh the team at National at the corporate office, those meetings are when everybody really sees what we do, right? That's our time to shine. You know, a lot of people don't see what you're doing every day in the office or even out on the road. Um but boy, at that meeting, you know, you got to you know, you got to show well because uh uh because that's when everybody's looking at you, right? That's your that's you know, that's game time, right? If you're next athlete. Yeah. Yes. I I I got to watch one of the presentations where you were talking about uh the purchases and the numbers and all that and I that's when it clicked. I was like, "Oh, okay." So, it's not only and and not to diminish it by any means, I think it's amazing just the just the part where they're taking care of each other's trucks across the country. That's that's incredible. But even if that's amazing, then I saw, oh yeah, of course, makes perfect sense. You have buying power cuz you have how many trucks? It's like there's a 100,000 trucks on the road today under the National System, 85,000 trailers. We have just over a thousand locations in the US and Canada. Wow. that and that comes with that opportunity to negotiate rates and and get things that they would have otherwise not been able to have if they're just a solo familyrun business. Yeah. Um and I think one of the great things is is we take that familyrun culture with our vendors as well. Um they're just as important, right? If if not more. We could not deliver our promise to our customers without the strong partnerships we have with them, right? And certainly the size and the scope uh help maybe make us a little **[00:14:00]** more attractive um you know to to to those uh to those vendors. Um, but I think at the end of the day too, it's those partnerships that we have with them and that we form and taking care of each other and caring about each other that um that allow us to, you know, to to have that relationship and and uh hey, we're always looking for our own unfair advantage, I say, right? And and if we need uh if there's a shortage on some product somewhere, I want to make sure that they take care of us and so we can take care of our customer, right? So, um, that culture, you know, it it, you know, we don't change it depending on who we're talking to, right? Um, you know, whether it's a vendor, a customer, or a member of National Leads, um, everybody's a part of that community, right? Yes. Yes. And I see it like just as a as a human being, if I'm driving across a country, even if in a car and something were to happen, if I know someone, even if I haven't spoken to them in a long time, if I know someone in the area, I'm going to call them up and say, "Hey, where where should I go?" Right? And having a network like this where where they can get that either help direct help from that other member or assistance in finding the right help, that's I you don't see it as much in in I mean I don't know if you see it a lot in your industry but in many most other industries that that doesn't really happen. There's a lot of like competition and me and mine and not not like let's expand together. Yeah, I think there's something right. Um, I don't know, at least from my view of things, right? Every industry probably has its to some degree, right? We all talk about small or middle America or the familyrun business going away, right? I mean, I love a great familyrun restaurant, right? You know, the one that's local. Somebody comes to Chicago, I'm not taking them to a to a big franchise or or or a big group, right? But I want to take them to, hey, this is my place, right? And uh you know we always say uh hey I got a guy and and **[00:16:00]** you want to have a guy in the national east world you always have a guy you know wherever that is guy or a girl right no matter where it is in the country you're at there's somebody there to take care of you um and and that's and that's great and I just think that there's something so special about a familyrun business that's a level of service that I don't care what industry it is um I haven't seen big box you know conglomerate you know businesses be able to replic replicate it. They can replicate a lot of things and they have a lot of good people. Uh but then it just kind of depends, right? Hey, this location is is is is you know, maybe a little bit better than than that one, but really getting that buy in and that level of service. Um I just think it's it's hard to replicate. And I don't think I don't care what industry it is. I uh I think I get a much higher level of service from a familyrun business for the most part than than than the big box places. Right. Yes. I agree. you you can tell when you walk into a store, when you walk into a service place that is familyun because you'll many times you'll see the owner there. Uh or you'll see another family member or it's just they're like family because they've been there so long and they care about the business and they care about their customers and so that it it's so much different. I I relate to it a lot in the the restaurants when you go to small like you were talking about restaurants. You go to a place where you know the chef is the owner and and he'll walk around and and he'll talk to you and he'll stay there for a while. You're like that is it's a completely different experience from from just a rinse and repeat kind of right chain. Yeah. No, I love it. Right. Um it it uh it just uh it's just there. Right. And in our industry, it's so important because um you know, we're not really uh you know, when when somebody chooses to do business with NationaLease, they're really for a big part outsourcing a big important part of their business uh and **[00:18:00]** something that they rely on and they have their own trucks and they're leasing trucks because um you know, it's not necessarily what they do. transportation's kind of a necessary evil. Um, but they, you know, but they want to do it in a way that's more cost compet competitive and gives them a competitive advantage versus their competition, right? Um, and so when you're outsourcing an asset and and and the maintenance on that asset and and you're you're buying into national uh keeping that truck on the road, um, so that they can make their deliveries during the day. Um, that's a big level of trust and that's a real partnership, right? I mean, that's uh you're not just buying a can of Coke, going to drink it, and then go buy another one when you need another one. You're going to be working together as organizations for the next five to six years, whatever the term of that lease is. Um, and so that's a big deal. And so that that, you know, it has to be, you know, it has to be a part of that. If if somebody starts doing business with us and they don't feel like we care or or or what have you, um, that's going to be a long five or six years because it's kind of like a marriage and you're stuck with each other. Um, and so, uh, and quite frankly, we want we want to renew it 5 years later with another new truck and, uh, and so hopefully it's a it's a great experience. And so, uh, um, you know, so, yeah, I go back to that you talked about the owner being there. You know, it's it's really important, I think, that the person who makes the promise of this is what we're going to do for the next five or six years is the person in the sixth year when the truck's a little bit older doesn't work as well. the the returns on that truck may not be as strong as the first or the second year, right? U but that person still is the one saying, "Hey, we said we were going to do this and and and and dog on it, we're going to do it, right?" Yes. Yes. I I think we should take a little bit to explain to the audience, our listeners, what exactly truck leasing is, how it works. Because again, I don't I don't think most people **[00:20:00]** realize that not I mean obviously not all trucks in the road are owned by whoever you see the sign on. Yeah. And nor managed, right? Or anything like that. So how does it work like in a general way? How how does it typically work with companies and trucks and leasing versus ownership and all that? Yeah. No, great question. Um and and appreciate you asking it cuz cuz it's a big it's a it's a much bigger part than anybody knows. Right. So I think by all most estimates about 50% of the private fleet trucks on the road today are leased from somebody like us or Ryder or Penske. So when you're seeing that truck that says uh well Walgreens is a good example, right? Walgreens leases that truck from us and and we provide the financing and the maintenance from it, right? one of our members and or it could be a company like Manderly or or you know folks like that. So when you see that that truck going down the road, especially one that's not a transportation company, right? They're not a trucking company, but uh but they have a fleece, you know, like an Ace Hardware has a fleet of trucks, right? They don't own any of them. They lease them. Uh and somebody else is maintaining those. Um and so that's a huge part of the, you know, that's a huge part of the business, right? And uh um and so a lot of you know there's probably you know not anybody listening here uh that hasn't had our truck, one of our trucks deliver something that they used almost every day. Uh restaurant supplies, right? Food, you know, alcohol, beer, uh you know, soda, you know, you name it. Newspapers, um you know, uh bakery items. you go to a 7-Eleven, chances are if you get a donut there or whatever, and they're really good because they've spent a lot of time ch changing the freshness of them if you haven't tried one lately, um, you know, those will be delivered on our trucks overnight, you know, so that they are fresh every day and and you can't be late, right? Because there's always such such a window when you're going to want a donut **[00:22:00]** at 7-Eleven, right? Yes, that is that is a good point. like it. It's not only the fact that it has to get there. It's you have to make sure it gets there at the right time with the right product at the right temperature sometimes. And if we as consumers just on our daily drive hit traffic sometimes and our 15minute drive turns into 45 minutes. Like can can we imagine what that means for trucking? Yeah. to get to their destination. Like all the planning that has to go into the logistics of it. Yeah, it's it's it's tough. You know, it's unique, right? Hey, our trucks that go to 7-Elevens have three temperatures inside the truck. Um, so there may be something in there at room temperature that's being delivered, right? Maybe a paper product or something like that. There may be something that has to go in at like maybe 40 or 50°, right? Like like a muffin. And then there may be frozen product um in there as well, right? All going to the same place, but all coming in at a different temperature. Um, I think one of the blessings, right, if you know, again, this was never planned. Uh, but, uh, you know, the time I spent probably about five years driving that truck to different restaurants, um, in Chicago, um, you know, gave me a a great insight into the life of the driver, right? And, and that's a, uh, um, I loved it. It might be the fa my favorite job I ever had. um young kid driving around Chicago, big wad of cash in my pocket because it was very much a cash business, right? And delivering and meeting people at these restaurants that became my friends. U you know, with a lot of independence, right? But with that also came a lot of you're out on your own. U and I really learned the importance of a network and having a backup, right? when you break down uh in the wrong neighborhood in Chicago with a lot of cash in your pocket and a lot of meat in the back of the truck and uh uh **[00:24:00]** you don't know how you you know and number one you got restaurants that are screaming wondering where where it is because you know they need to start preparing it for the dinners that night, right? Um, it's a tough place to be and when you show up late and uh or or god forbid you show up between 11 and 1 when they're in their lunch rush or or 4 to 6 when they're doing dinner. Um, you know, it's the driver that gets hammered um and and gets yelled at, right? And uh um and and when you're when you're out there too, you know, you also want to start your day in the morning. You want to feel confident that that truck you're getting into is going to get you back there safely so you can get back home to your family that night um and have it too. And those those things and and you have to have that network because there's a lot that go there's a lot that goes into it, right? Yeah. I didn't even think of that. So, it's not only like get there on time, but then also the dangers that might occur at night or or like dangerous areas and then the rush rush hours for for the actual place. They won't be able to take you in, get get you sorted because they're busy and then you might have to do a an additional delivery somewhere else and you have to stop and wait until they finish and take it. Yeah. And and then there's also like at the shipyards and all that, there's there's another whole thing, right, where they're like, "Oh, we cannot move it because the docket or whatever." And they make their own crazy things happen. Yeah. Yeah. I think um you know, I always think that that you know, for for for a lot of reasons, right, that that the uh that the drivers and the mechanics uh that we have because they're the ones that really make this work, right? We can talk about all this stuff all we want and and develop all these plans and and have all these great ideas, but nothing works if the mechan if you don't have a good mechanic taking care of the truck who's got a good relationship with the driver. Um that's that's where you know that's the that's the line of scrimmage in transportation, right? But um you know when when COVID **[00:26:00]** hit and a lot of other people you know uh for all good reason went home and I'm not going to get political on on any of this, right? But but the drivers didn't get to do that, right? the drivers had to go to work, you know, and a lot of people didn't know what they didn't know back then, right? But uh I think our industry really stood tall um at that time and uh you know, and made the deliveries that needed to be made and went to work, right? And they, you know, no none of them ever heard of work from home, right? Um it's not any of that and questions and and they did it. So, uh, and there's a lot of talk in the, you know, in the news today, um, rightfully so, um, you know, about, uh, uh, about those that do it right and those that don't. And just like anything else, I think we tend to focus on on the ones that do it wrong or the negative, you know, sometimes, right? That's that's what makes the news. It doesn't make the news that that, you know, 99 drivers did a great job and made all their deliveries all time every day and did it in the safest, most efficient way possible. But that one that doesn't, boy, that's going to be all over it. Um, there's a lot of really good ones out there and and quite frankly, you think about it, you know, if that if they weren't there, um, you know, you know, everything that we do and that we count on every day, um, wouldn't happen. And so, we're really proud to be a part of that and supporting it, you know, and supporting those guys and and having that kind of a network to to, uh, to make sure everything that we rely on, you know, gets there every day on time, every time. it. Unfortunately, like you said, it's what we see when we're driving. We're trying to get up to a holiday or something and we see the line of all the trucks. Yeah. And you're like, "Oh, these trucks, right?" Yeah. Yeah. These trucks. Nothing about what you're about to try to do on your trip would happen or would be possible if those trucks didn't exist. Yeah. And and sometimes we have to remember that and and be nicer to the **[00:28:00]** drivers and like if you go to a rest area like don't take their space like there's a this specially designated spaces for cars versus trucks and like they're working and it's a hard job. It it's a it's a hard it's a it's a hard and lonely life. Especially those guys that are over the road, right? Those guys at the truck stop, right? and and and that's where they're sleeping and and that's where they're getting their meal and and taking a and taking a shower sometimes. So, um they make lots of sacrifices, right? And their families make sacrifices uh for them to be out on the road and doing the things that they do. And and again, so many of them do such a great job and are such professionals. I mean, if you don't think that um you know, the level of talent uh that it takes to back a tractor trailer up in in in Chicago in the market while it's all there and you've got literally just a couple of inches both sides to back that thing in, get it loaded up and get out without touching anything. Um is such an unbelievable talent and uh and these guys out there. And so we need to really, you know, reward and uh and and celebrate the really good ones out there, too. And uh and and quite frankly, you know, do the things to to make sure that the ones that may not be doing it the right way um you know, aren't on the road because they're sharing the road with our families, right? And and so that's that's that's really important. Yeah, I agree. And and you mentioned the mechanics as well, like both of them bring everything up, but at the same time, like the mechanics also sometimes get a bad bad rep because of a few that are not good or that are uh taking advantage of the situation. Yeah. Uh every industry's got it, right? Yeah. There's there's there's always there's always that. Um, when you were talking about all the the network in the community, I I I remembered something that happened recently in my dad's shop where well, he it's a family run business is his shop, right? **[00:30:00]** Yeah. One of his friends had to take his SUV, it's one of these luxury SUVs to the dealer cuz that's where you take a luxury SUV, right? Uh because they hit a pothole or something. Yeah. And something happened. It was they they were going to charge them I think I don't know 16 $18,000 or something to repair it. It wasn't like they crashed. It was just there's something wrong. They they had to change the suspension and a bunch of other things. Wow. So this guy calls out my dad and says, "Hey, this is happening." And my dad says, "Let me drive up there." He has his own shop. So he's like and it's his friend, right? The network. So he goes, he he asked him to lift the truck up. He looks and he finds these uh threaded uh I don't know what the the name like like a type of screw. It's like a like a long thing that's threaded. And he asked him to pull them down. And there there's a couple of them. And one of them is like micro like a millimeter off, just a little bit bent. And so he asked him to swap them one for the other. And then the issue is gone. And then he calls me up. He says, "Hey, I found this place online. You can get these. grab a couple of them just in case. $18 for the both of them. They ship them over to him. They put them on the truck and it perfect. Yeah. Amazing. And you want to It's And now your dad's got a friend for life. And that friend is going to tell everybody he knows what your dad did for him, right? And and if not, and that's how something goes viral. And And there's still something to uh you know, I know it probably sounds old school, but you know what I say. you know, um, you know, hey, having a having a guy or a girl, right? You know, you know, I know somebody that can do this, right? We've all had a friend like you needed a plumber and you're like, I don't know who to call, who to trust, and and you got that, you know, there's that one friend everybody seems to have in the neighborhood and he's got a guy for everything, right? Yes. Yes. I said, well, that's what we want to be. We want to be we want to be that person that that our customer calls. **[00:32:00]** Yes. and says, "No matter what is and we provide that type of service that your dad provides, you know, where he says, "Hey, he's not looking to maximize." He probably could have said, "Hey, I'll fix this for 15,000." Right. Right. And gotten it done. Um uh but he did the right thing and uh and uh and he did it that and for that he's got somebody who's, you know, who's uh who's going to help him when he's, you know, if he needs something, right? And that's the stuff that goes viral and that's the stuff that makes, you know, that that really makes for a great long-term partnership, which is which is what we're all looking for. Yes. And I saw that at NationaLease. I could tell people the way people interacted and the way they were talking about like renewing even with with vendors. We're talking about vendors. like I saw them interacting with vendors and you know at a conference or a meet up here you you expect this sort of disconnect between vendors they're trying to pitch stuff right to the but no I was at a table I was having breakfast and one of them was selling I I want to call anyone out so I won't tell what they were saying but they were they had something but the conversation was completely different from what I expected one guy was like oh yeah uh the the whatever they were doing. And another guy's like, "Oh, how how many do you have?" And he's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I've got 18 of these. This guy's the best. He should hook you up." And they they just started like doing that whole interaction and and then they started chatting and and it was so organic and I really like that and it speaks to the culture that that you were talking about earlier. Yeah. No, it's a it's a uh it's a it matters a lot, right? Some of my best friends are my vendors, right? Um, and it's not just because they take us somewhere or or or or buy a dinner or or or what have you. Um, it's our um our families have gotten to know each other, right? And and and our kids know each other and our and our spouses know each other and and investing in that um that **[00:34:00]** that kind of a relationship is just uh it just it just breeds that kind of family support, right? And uh and and everybody says it and and hey, look um I always say, you know, national east isn't your number one. And we'll we'll tell everybody that work, you know, that works for us. Say, hey, I expect your god or whatever it is you believe in. That's that that's your number one. And and number two is your family. And then this place comes third, right? That that that's what we ask and and and that. But boy, if you can make it close, you know, to that point where where people want to not not just because it's their job from 9 to5, but they want to take care of somebody if something happens, which happens in this industry, right, on a on Saturday night at at 11:30 at night. Um, that's the that's the kind of group, you know, that's that's the kind of group I, you know, I want to be around, right, where where everybody wants to pick up the phone. Um, you know, doesn't always love it, right? and things of that nature. But but hey, you want to take care of them because they either took care of you or you know they will take care of you someday. Yeah, that's incredible. You were talking earlier about a lot of companies not owning the trucks and and leasing them and there's a maintenance aspect to it as well, right? I I remember a friend of mine a long time ago, he was going to buy a bunch of forklifts so he could lease them out and take care of all the maintenance and all that because a company that was very close just needed a ton of them. And I was like he was explaining how the whole business of it worked and I was like, "Oh, that's that's incredible." Yeah. Cuz that other company, they made like I don't know parts for for rail for for trains. And so they didn't they don't need to buy and they don't care about buying forklifts, but they do need the fork lists and so they much rather pay even if it's a ton of money to this other company to just take care of the fork list, make sure they work and they're here and give me another one if one breaks, right? So how does how does all that work? I mean in the trucking world of course. Yeah. Well, I mean I think you know what **[00:36:00]** you're really getting into is why people lease trucks, right? There's financial benefits and things of that nature. We buy trucks better than most people can buy it because we buy more, right? And work with our vendors. Um really important part of our industry is is selling the used vehicle, the residual, you know, and having getting as much value on that end. Uh that keeps the cost down for our customers who are operating. Um but at the end of the day, what really matters is keeping that truck on the road. and our customers um you know as our sales leader Joe Galla always says hey our our customers just want to use their their truck when they need their truck with their name on the truck um and so it's important that that truck is rolling down the road with you know whatever the company's name on is delivering and being that sales vehicle for that customer and and that it allows them to deliver on their promise to their customer. Um, right. Hey, we're going to be there on time every time and we're going to make sure, hey, if it's an auto factory, you know, building cars, right, with just in time delivery where they're taking stuff off the truck and putting it on the production line and if that truck doesn't get there on time, it could shut down the production line, right? Um, that's how tight some of this stuff is, right? Or or what the temperature of that muffin is when it gets to Starbucks or the the pizza dough at Papa John's. Uh, things of that nature. and uh and that's what they're really buying is um you know and and what they need is that high level of performance and you know and and I think we do it better than than than anybody you know than anybody else and if that truck isn't there um you know providing uninterrupted transportation then that can shut down somebody else's business right I mean the the check doesn't cash and the deal isn't done until both sides you know, to one side has gotten what the other side said they they would deliver, right? And then the other side owes the other side a check, and that's usually how it works, right? It's pretty simple. Uh but but sometimes it's a lot **[00:38:00]** harder to execute, right? And uh uh and that's what they're buying. They're buying the fact that they don't have to worry about the transportation. Nationally, it's going to make sure that that truck is in working is in good, safe, working order, and then they can go concentrate on the core business that makes them great. you know whether it's making widgets you know making you know making dinners making whatever so see if I understand it properly and please correct me if I didn't so you have members right and they they they have they have their own trucks and their own shops and then a company like Walgreens or or Papa John's or whoever they need to have trucks because they need to transport things. Yeah. And so they get into a leasing agreement with one of the member companies. Yeah. For five, six years for a truck or set of trucks. They're like, I need 50 trucks and and that and then they they sort of have that agreement and then they take care of the truck. Well, the member company takes care of the trucks. Is that how it's sort of how it works? Yeah. Yeah. You got it. You got it. And if you want to even take it to another level, then a big national company like like a Manderly, right? uh that that may have 20 something different distribution centers through the US. Um they'll come to our team and sign a national agreement, right? And we'll have a team of national salespeople that represent NationaLease throughout the United States and Canada and you know, hey, Manderly doesn't want to call 15 different familyrun businesses, one in LA, one in Chicago, negotiate different contracts, move stuff around, right? You know, as as uh as Joe Galla, our VP of sales, likes to say too, right? that, you know, they want one neck to choke. Um, they want one invoice sent to them with all their locations. There's somebody at their corporate office that wants all the data and the information in one place, right? They don't want to go to 10 different spots, right? Uh, and **[00:40:00]** so that's what National East provides, you know, as well. And then quote unquote, if Manderly award awards us their business in Los Angeles, our member in Los Angeles will take care of that business there, right? and then Chicago, our member, will take care of it there, right? But then that's the network and they're all supporting it. Um, and and Manderly is getting the benefit of, you know, you know, our our our tagline is national connections and local ownerships. Um, I really believe in that. I'm not a big believer in taglines usually, right? I probably roll my eyes as much as anybody else does when when you hear them, but boy, that one really fits. Um and uh and again it's just like having a having a great familyrun restaurant um in every market that you go to, right? and and having that owner walking around and and and you know and interacting with the with the customers and and you know taking so much pride in in in what they're providing you know in what they're providing you and uh um and hey you know uh being able to do that and and keep that keep that culture uh but provided on a national scale I think it's pretty special that is something I have not thought of in our space. I can see a parallel in the the software IT space. If you're a small company, yeah, you can you can probably do many things, but then if a large corporation wants something, they might need a lot of more resources than maybe you can handle or offer. So, you you might not get a lot of these jobs that are at a higher level unless you hire a ton of people. And so if a network like that existed in that space then it would be oh okay there's this central organization home office that can say oh yes corporation we'll set you up with one invoice right with everything and then the parts go to the respective um independent companies that do the the **[00:42:00]** thing they they they work together way in in a way um but they're able to not only like we were saying earlier get better rates and things on purchases, but also maybe get access to deals that they wouldn't otherwise have been able to. Yeah, you know, Armando, it's, you know, everything's moving so fast, you know, to today and and technology changes so fast. I always say, um, I love using this as an example, right? I mean, I I uh this phone uh I can operate my entire life on it, you know, right now, right? I'm going to be leaving uh here and uh u I'm going to be on the road for the next seven days and and uh uh I don't need to bring a computer. I don't need to bring anything else. I can do everything I need on that phone. Um and that's kind of the way I look at um uh the world right now. I mean, you know, hey, the phone comes with some stuff and then all of a sudden if I want something else on it, I go get an app and I put it on my phone, right? And I can do it there. I can do my banking. I can do my travel. uh you know I can find out where my kids are. Um I can do everything. I can order stuff that I need, right? Um I think uh companies really um you know strategic partnerships is really important right now, right? And that's when it goes back to how we treat our vendors and look at our vendors too because you know in in some ways right we're like that phone. we're like that hard phone or whatever, but we're trying to pull together this whole network um that that that somebody can pull to. So, hey, if even if we can't um you know, we've got strategic partnerships with different software providers and with different different other boats in the organization that make us more will help us become more successful, whether that's building up our internal capabilities or our external capabilities. um it's just so fast and it changes so much and there's so much capital that's that's required uh to do a lot of these things um that hey wherever we can find **[00:44:00]** a strategic partnership with somebody um you know we're looking at those just as hard as we're looking at bringing on new customers or or things of that nature. whatever we can do to provide value for our community. Um, that's what we're trying to do and and and a lot of that is around strategic partnerships because you can't do nearly everything you need to do inhouse anymore, right? Mhm. Yes. Well, and the perfect example is is the trucks, right? Like we again as a general public, we don't see like uh Walgreens, they're not a trucking company. There there are trucking companies. You mentioned it at the beginning. It's a different game. They do logistics, right? But yeah, that's what they do. But a lot of these other companies just need trucking. It's part of how they need to work, but they're not it's a necessary evil, right? They don't want to be a part of it. It's a huge expense. Uh but boy, it can really be the differentiator in in a company uh uh being successful in their business versus another, right? Can you imagine somebody who can deliver faster, cheap, more effective um you know and and and maybe has a better billboard than another one. Boy, what a competitive advantage um that is in any industry. And that's why a lot of them look to this because uh they realize, boy, that's a that's a huge, you know, that's a huge part. A lot of our customers will tell us that, hey, that transportation side of it makes up maybe 25% of their their cost of doing business, right? um you know, they'd love to be able to get it there from point A to point B and and just you know, but and not think about it, but uh you know, you know, again, it's it's a necessary evil that's that's going to be there for a long time, right? There's a lot of new technology coming, but there's nothing there that that zaps it from you to me yet. Oh, no. You know, like like some of the stuff it'll probably happen someday, but I don't think it'll be in our life. Yeah. No, I think it's a very resilient uh part of the economy. rail, um, ships, **[00:46:00]** trucks, there's there's not much getting around it just because of the weight. Like just just because of that, even if you had drones and things like just because of the weight, it's you can't not anytime soon at least. Um, but so so it's really important. Now, there are things that can help make it maybe more efficient and things like that which will inev inevitably drive down costs which is good. Like I don't know what do you think in the industry about like the Tesla trucks regardless of brand like having Yeah. driver assistance in in vehicles and that sort of Yeah, that's a it's a great question, right? Because we've seen a lot of back and forth on it. Um, boy, I uh uh I think it's hard to legislate change like that. Um, you know, when you find a technology, um, you know, like an Uber, you know, using Uber. Why is Uber so successful? I believe that Uber is really successful because they made it a lot easier, a lot faster, and more cost-effective than me trying to find a cab uh or or calling a limo. So, it it solved a lot of it solved a lot of problems for me, the rider, right? I could I can use it. I can just click it on my phone. Um heck, if I give it to my kids, I can see who's picking them up. I can watch the car drive. Yeah. Um and I think it's probably more cost-effective uh than, you know, when we were hailing cabs, you know, and and that was if you were in a city big enough to have them or or trying to call a a limo company and how many were there really available? Um so it solved an issue. It kind of went around, right? You know, it was hey, it was me here. it was the the the cab pl, you know, the cab place here. Um, and then Uber's over here, right? So, they've gone around these the cab companies and everybody, you know, whether you like it or not, uh, because they found a faster, more cost-effective way to do something. Um, right now, while those technologies are great and **[00:48:00]** we should continue exploring them, um, really the end game really doesn't change that much versus, you know, I I think versus where we're at, you know, right now. We don't have the infrastructure. Yeah. Uh to handle it. Um you know is it's not necessarily cost effective. There's some arguments and and there's some places where where it makes work, but without government subsidies and things of that nature. U it doesn't stand alone with it regardless of what we're talking about the price today, right? of of of diesel, you know, makes more sense today than than ever. And boy, if diesel ever got up to $150 a barrel, you know, for for oil, I think uh I think you'd really be looking at some things, especially natural gas. Um, so I think we should continue looking at those things. Hey, we want to run the safest, cleanest, best trucks on the road. Uh, the industry does. Um, and but, uh, um, but you got to be able to, you know, to get it, you know, to do it in in an effective manner that, um, that that that works. So, I think there's a lot of work left to be done before we really see a lot of that on the uh, on the road. Um, the autonomous I think is very interesting. um that one right, you know, almost by itself. Uh but I think that one really depends a lot more on on, you know, uh on on legislation, you know, again, right? I mean, are we willing to have a world of trucks going down the road without a driver in them? Um I think it's hard maybe for somebody like me who's always seen a driver and it feels good, right? I mean, I've been out in Los Angeles and in in Phoenix and I've seen those Whimo cars coming to pick people up. I haven't had the guts yet to uh to get into wood. Uh but boy, you want to know it's going to be pretty quick before another generation is used to it, right? And then they're there and and I think there's really something there. You're going to have a hard time because there's going to be a lot of folks fighting it. U you know, certainly uh you know, truck driving unions aren't going to be huge fans of it, right? and **[00:50:00]** and there's going to be other industries that that really struggle with it. But but boy, I I think for the most part, a lot of the technologies there. Um but at the end of the day, I think for the next 10 or 15 years, you're still going to see an industry heavy reliance on diesel fuel and on on, you know, on a driver inside the truck. Um but it'll get better and it's going to get closer. It's going to get safer. Um and uh uh it's going to be more, you know, and it's going to be cleaner. Yeah. I there are so many little nuances and things that people don't understand and I myself don't uh in in the industry now that you were saying like diesel and all that. I had no idea all of the little extra things that you had to consider like maybe you can't idle in some places. You need to have solar panels on the roof so you can keep the things on in the electric because you have ACs and like it's there's there's so much involved. You know, I always say, you know, one of the big things that they use with electric, right? And I'm just trying to think of the way through because I always say there's two guys sitting in Silicon Valley some right right in a garage and they're working on something right now, right? That I can't even imagine. Uh but boy, maybe in five or 10 years, it's going to turn the industry upside down, right? U you electric trucks or even electric cars, right? Think of the first phones that we had, you know, 20 years ago. Uh those bricks that we used to try and carry around. Um but um you know, hey, you know, there's a lot of things going on and there's going to be a lot of pressures on on the grid. Um you know, you think of AI, right? Uh I mean, what does it really cost and and how much of a of a weight there? So, we've got an electric grid that for the most part is outdated already and stretched to the limit and now we're going to add a whole fleet of trucks and cars and the the the the requirements of AI. Um well, that's great. Uh but hey, what are we going to do now? But then at some point, right, then the price of electricity is going to have to go up. Uh it's supply demand, right? It it it's **[00:52:00]** pretty simple. Uh and you're going to have to increase the grid and and you know, and and a lot of electricity is managed by politicians, right? They have to, you know, for for what they do at the rate. Well, they don't love raising people's cost, you know, that that you know, you know, right where it hits them at home every once a month, right? So that's going to be a challenge. And then our our our uh our our infrastructure of this country is based a lot on fuel taxes and and different types of taxes um that right now aren't factored into the cost of an electric truck versus a diesel truck. So when these things happen um not to mention nobody knows what an electric truck's going to fetch on the used truck market which which is a big which is a big item. So, um, you know, I guess there's a lot of, uh, I don't know. I don't know how, you know, hey, everybody's got, you know, you know, a direction they want something to go, right? But I I I think there needs to be a lot more time really looking down the road and saying, hey, what's the right thing to do here? And what really are the savings and what are we get getting, you know, what are we getting from it? Um, and then, you know, hey, you know, and are we willing to commit to something, right? So, uh, there's there there's a there's a lot there. Um, you know, I know I just spewed out a lot, but there there's a lot there's a lot around it that I think makes it, you know, you know, people will continue to try and adopt it and use it and get it get an advantage. Um, you know, that's business, that's capitalism. Um, you know, and I and I love that. Um, I I still don't think there's a better way to do it. Um, but um, but I think it's going to take some time and there's, you know, there's there's still a lot of things to be worked out. Yeah. No, that then those are all super valid points that we don't it's that it's that exercise mental exercise of like yeah yeah it sounds great but right used market like uh how are you going to power these like there's so many things that that snowball into it that maybe if you're just creating the product it all sounds nice but at the end of the day a whole **[00:54:00]** industry depends on it actually rolling forward. So, this has been such a pleasure, Dean. I I I learned so much about how this industry works today, more than I had learned at at that event and I had knew absolutely nothing. And so, it was it was super super interesting and I really appreciate you coming on sharing your experience, your knowledge with our listeners. If anyone who's listening is interested in learning more about NationaLease and how it works and all that, where's a good place for them to to find out more and maybe reach out? Yeah. Yeah. Certainly at uh you know on our website www.nlease.com 1L in in the middle, not two. Um is probably the best place to start and uh um and there's certainly number phone numbers to dial in. I can promise if you dial our number, you'll talk to a human. Uh you know, we'll still be a part of that. I think that's a big part of the the familyrun business. Um uh but uh but yeah, we uh uh anywhere from renting a truck, you know, for a day to a long-term lease is is is what we do. We take a tremendous amount of pride in it. We'll put the drive a driver in the truck as well if that's what you're looking for in your business. And uh um you know, I can promise you won't uh it won't get a uh they won't get a uh it won't get a better service provider in the industry than the uh than the folks that make up NationaLease. Amazing. I'll put that link in the show notes as well. And for Thank you so much, Dean. For everyone who is listening, if you haven't liked and subscribed, please do so so you are aware whenever we release episodes like this amazing episode with Dean Vicha from NationaLease. And make sure to go to their website if you're interested in any transportation uh or leasing needs. Um, thanks again, Dean. No, thank you. I had a lot of fun. Yeah, me as well. again. I'm I'm super excited. I have so many notes. Yeah. Awesome. **[00:56:00]** All right. We'll see you in the next one, everyone.